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Excuses for being late

Consistently getting angry with a partner, friend or colleague? Then adjust your expectations...
Your right that there's no point consistently getting angry with someone who's late. Once it's clear they won't change despite knowing how much lateness bothers me, then, in the case of a partner or friend, I'd end the relationship. That might no be so easy with a colleague; in that case I'd not adjust my expectations, though. I'd start meetings without them and decline to repeat myself when they finally turned up etc.
 
Your right that there's no point consistently getting angry with someone who's late. Once it's clear they won't change despite knowing how much lateness bothers me, then, in the case of a partner or friend, I'd end the relationship. That might no be so easy with a colleague; in that case I'd not adjust my expectations, though. I'd start meetings without them and decline to repeat myself when they finally turned up etc.
You do you man. Some of my favourite people to spend time with have time blindness issues. I'm willing to practice patience (and that doesn't come naturally to me) because of the value they bring to my life.
 
It's the person who's habitually late who's guilty of that. When you do something on your own, you're free to do it when you like. When you do something jointly with others -- whether they're friends or colleagues or anything else -- you have to agree on a time to do it. If people just turned up when they felt like it, it would make it harder if not impossible to achieve whatever the point of the gathering was.
 
You do you man. Some of my favourite people to spend time with have time blindness issues. I'm willing to practice patience (and that doesn't come naturally to me) because of the value they bring to my life.

If I was aware that someone has issues that affect their timekeeping then of course I’d give them some leeway. But I don’t know anyone with such a (diagnosed) condition so I default to thinking they’re rude arseholes.

Ever been waiting for someone and phoned them up after several reminders to find they haven’t left yet, or are still in the other pub?

That’s not ADHD, it’s being a thoughtless cunt.
 
If I was aware that someone has issues that affect their timekeeping then of course I’d give them some leeway. But I don’t know anyone with such a (diagnosed) condition so I default to thinking they’re rude arseholes.

Ever been waiting for someone and phoned them up to find they haven’t left yet, or are still in the other pub?

That’s not ADHD, it’s being a thoughtless cunt.
I kinda agree. But sometimes people aren't quite there yet...learning how our behaviour and foibles impact those we care about is a process.
I would never use my adhd as an excuse to keep people waiting as I also hold the belief that its rude and shows a lack of empathy and respect. The mates I have who are consistently late don't (yet) have diagnosis and therefore have few coping strategies to help them get out of the habit and no doubt feel shame for it. I am not gonna add to that shame.
 
Also Athos You're not that important dude.
Expecting others to change in fundamental ways in order to meet your rigid expectations reeks of self importance tbh.
It's the complete opposite; being consistently late is saying to someone that their time isn't as important as yours! What could be more self-important than expecting everyone else to wait for you?

But I don't necessarily expect them to change; if they can't/don't want to, that's completely cool; it just means we're incompatible. We all have red lines in relationships. I don't think basic courtesy is too much to ask for.
 
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You do you man. Some of my favourite people to spend time with have time blindness issues. I'm willing to practice patience (and that doesn't come naturally to me) because of the value they bring to my life.
That's great. Would be boring if we all liked the same things/people.
 
The thing with habitually late people is that they might never have had to actually wait for someone else and won't have experienced what it feels like.

There are a couple of habitually late people in my life - and on the rare occasions where someone else has been late and they've had to wait, I've noted that they get very irritated.

I reckon that if you're habitually late, that 10 or 15 or 30 minutes simply passes more quicky for you than it does for the person sitting in the car or pub or rain or whatever. So it doesn't seem like such a big deal.
 
The thing with habitually late people is that they might never have had to actually wait for someone else and won't have experienced what it feels like.

There are a couple of habitually late people in my life - and on the rare occasions where someone else has been late and they've had to wait, I've noted that they get very irritated.

I reckon that if you're habitually late, that 10 or 15 or 30 minutes simply passes more quicky for you than it does for the person sitting in the car or pub or rain or whatever. So it doesn't seem like such a big deal.
One of my best and most long time friends is habitually 15 minutes late. Long ago I started giving him a different (15 minutes earlier) start time to others for meetings etc. He was quite irritated when he found out why he was arriving on time, and then started applying the additional 15 minutes lee-way so he was back to being 15 minutes late.
 
If you officially started later and worked later would that make a difference? How late are you talking anyway?
 
One of my best and most long time friends is habitually 15 minutes late. Long ago I started giving him a different (15 minutes earlier) start time to others for meetings etc. He was quite irritated when he found out why he was arriving on time, and then started applying the additional 15 minutes lee-way so he was back to being 15 minutes late.
Yes, the adding-on-leeway strategy generally doesn't work because soon enough they will realise what you are doing and re-adjust their timings.

And it can be a dangerous strategy - say you are dependent on someone giving you a lift to catch a train, and they ask what time the train is, and you give them a time that's 15 minutes earlier than the real time, and you get there and they see that you've told them a false time. And then the next time you are getting a lift from them you tell them the actual time, and they assume that you've added a bit on, and they cut it really fine but according to what they've decided is the real time and then of course you miss it.

So, in this situation I now often pretend I can't remember the exact time and if the train is at 12.48 I say "oh it's 12.30 or 12.40 or something like that" or even "12 something I think" for as long as I can get away with because even if you have to give the real time on the day, perhaps you might have prevented them scheduling in some other thing too close beforehand that is clearly not going to work.
 
Yes, the adding-on-leeway strategy generally doesn't work because soon enough they will realise what you are doing and re-adjust their timings.

And it can be a dangerous strategy - say you are dependent on someone giving you a lift to catch a train, and they ask what time the train is, and you give them a time that's 15 minutes earlier than the real time, and you get there and they see that you've told them a false time. And then the next time you are getting a lift from them you tell them the actual time, and they assume that you've added a bit on, and they cut it really fine but according to what they've decided is the real time and then of course you miss it.

So, in this situation I now often pretend I can't remember the exact time and if the train is at 12.48 I say "oh it's 12.30 or 12.40 or something like that" or even "12 something I think" for as long as I can get away with because even if you have to give the real time on the day, perhaps you might have prevented them scheduling in some other thing too close beforehand that is clearly not going to work.
There's a "doing it on purpose" aspect to this type of late-person that makes it more than just irritating for me. It's a combination of controlling + disrespectful of my time. Nowadays I'm inclined to say, "text me when you're there and I'll join you provided it's not later than X time". At least I can choose where I wait using this method.

Edit: doesn't work for lifts to station etc, I probably wouldn't ask them.
 
I don't think it's always on purpose, I think it's often the result of over-optimistic / unrealistic estimates of how long it's going to take to do something. They will have set themselves some task to do, before meeting you, and thought they could complete it, and then they'll either finish it late or be kidding themselves to the last minute that it's nearly done by which time they've already made themselves late.
 
I don't think it's always on purpose, I think it's often the result of over-optimistic / unrealistic estimates of how long it's going to take to do something. They will have set themselves some task to do, before meeting you, and thought they could complete it, and then they'll either finish it late or be kidding themselves to the last minute that it's nearly done by which time they've already made themselves late.
Ah yes, agree with the unthinking habituals and/or where people struggle with time eg ADHD where they try.

But I was thinking of the person where it is on purpose (in my example, deliberately maintaining 15 minutes late).
 
This is tricky in my work place because it's a school. I have a team member who has ADHD and is often late. This impacts on her work, colleagues and the students as she is not there when the school day starts. However she does have ADHD and it is an issue related to poor sleep as well as poor time management. I also have ADHD but have always veered towards the other end, hyperfocus on getting places in time and often early. It's hard to figure out how to support her and also not get pissed off in our environment.

However it sounds like Orang Utan's work could easily make a reasonable adjustment. Leeway of 20-30min as long as he stays longer at the end, at this time he could also do things for the morning that ease the load at opening time (sounds like he already does this) and I doubt it would piss off his colleagues if they are all there on time and he's done stuff to help them and is still working the same amount of time. Anyone else who needs a more flexible approach is also then in a position to ask. I think there's scope under the disability laws to pursue this.
 
Yesterday I was late because I was going to be early and started doing something and lost track of time. The thing I do at work cannot be done by anyone else and when I arrived people were waiting for me. I apologised and said that I’d lost track of time. Everyone seemed okay with it, although I felt crappy about it.



I’ve struggled with time keeping and punctuality my whole life. I’ve tried a billion different strategies and I’ve tried examining myself in order to work out what’s going on.


Being diagnosed with complexPTSD seems to have clarified some of it. I really think my inability to get out of the house on time and the anxieties that erupt whenever I have to wait for anything is rooted in early, complex and ongoing trauma.

I did arrive at some methods and techniques that made me less late and more often on time but as OU said, there was an attendant cost to all that.

On reflection, I see that I’ve pretty much arranged my social life so that almost all my meet ups are in places where it doesn’t matter what time I arrive.

Mobile phones has made it a lot easier to give people updates. If I think I’m going to be late for something that we said a time for, I’ll check way ahead, up to an hour ahead, and say “I think I’m running late”. If it’s a table booking I just work extra time into the plan, pretend to myself that the booking is earlier, be late for that and turn up bang on time. But I’ll be super stressed for at least part of that process.

Being on time sometimes results in me arriving flustered, hyped up and full of kinetic energy from the running etc. That can be really disruptive to those who are already there. That feels rude too. I try to calm down and settle before I join them, sometimes that makes me a few minutes late even though I arrived on time. It’s ridiculous

More recent hellish events led to a huge and acute bout of the PTSD and an equivalent huge uptick in my chronic lateness.

Athos your approach would not only make me sad and anxious it would add further impact to the trauma (I’m a terrible person, I’m no good, Athos hates me, I’m a failure).

Currently it takes me about 40 minutes to get out of the house for a social event. I want to leave, I’m ready to leave, but some kind of fearful part of me never wants to leave the house at all. The battle between those parts is loud, messy, and often idiotic, and sometimes exhausting. I genuinely can’t help it.

But also, I don’t expect anyone else to have to do the housekeeping around my internal shit, so I don’t tell people about this, so they just think I’m rude, discourteous, entitled, out of order etc.

I have to plan plane trips like a military operation and write out timetables for myself.

When I worked somewhere where the timekeeping was ruled like a prison I was in a state of abject misery the entire time. Most of my workplaces have been more relaxed and they know I put the time in, the effort, diligence, responsibility etc) and I guess this is a contributing factor to why I’ve never had a proper grown up career. Also self employed, and once I’m at my desk I’ll work without a break for many hours.


Also, owls and larks. I’m definitely an owl. I think there’s a place (probably Denmark) where they recognise this difference and allow office workers to do the early start or the later start, and finish work early or late after putting in the full complement of hours.
 
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Athos your approach would not only make me sad and anxious it would add further impact to the trauma (I’m a terrible person, I’m no good, Athos hates me, I’m a failure).
Being a poor timekeeper doesn't make you a terrible person, nor would it make me hate you. It'd get on my tits, and my response would probably make things worse, though. Which just means we wouldn't be compatible as friends. Something I suspect would be more of a loss for me than you. :)
 
Being a poor timekeeper doesn't make you a terrible person, nor would it make me hate you. It'd get on my tits, and my response would probably make things worse, though. Which just means we wouldn't be compatible as friends. Something I suspect would be more of a loss for me than you. :)

Logically and rationally I understand that. Trauma response and ptsd is the very opposite of rational though.
 
Thought I might have to use this as it happened just as I was leaving. I was just about on time.
Ended up having to wait over an hour before I was seen, though :(
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This is tricky in my work place because it's a school. I have a team member who has ADHD and is often late. This impacts on her work, colleagues and the students as she is not there when the school day starts. However she does have ADHD and it is an issue related to poor sleep as well as poor time management. I also have ADHD but have always veered towards the other end, hyperfocus on getting places in time and often early. It's hard to figure out how to support her and also not get pissed off in our environment.

However it sounds like Orang Utan's work could easily make a reasonable adjustment. Leeway of 20-30min as long as he stays longer at the end, at this time he could also do things for the morning that ease the load at opening time (sounds like he already does this) and I doubt it would piss off his colleagues if they are all there on time and he's done stuff to help them and is still working the same amount of time. Anyone else who needs a more flexible approach is also then in a position to ask. I think there's scope under the disability laws to pursue this.
As a union rep this is the advice I would be giving. However, is there a risk that you would just see X as the time you start work, and would be late for that too? As others have said, persistent lateness can be a disciplinary offence.
 
remember I had one job who was a really bastard for time keeping

push me the limit on it so in kin just left the very second my shift ended and would not do any overtime unless it was something critical

soon stopped bitching at me for being a minute or 2 later every so often
 
Logically and rationally I understand that. Trauma response and ptsd is the very opposite of rational though.
:(

I had a mate with ptsd. He was punctual, but he'd always end up getting into fights, which meant I got embroiled. I didn't blame him (as I knew he done everything he could to get help), but, notwithstanding all his excellent qualities, eventually, I had to stop going out with him, and our friendship died off. I feel a bit guilty about it, but we all need to take care of ourselves and our families first.
 
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Yes, the adding-on-leeway strategy generally doesn't work because soon enough they will realise what you are doing and re-adjust their timings.

And it can be a dangerous strategy - say you are dependent on someone giving you a lift to catch a train, and they ask what time the train is, and you give them a time that's 15 minutes earlier than the real time, and you get there and they see that you've told them a false time. And then the next time you are getting a lift from them you tell them the actual time, and they assume that you've added a bit on, and they cut it really fine but according to what they've decided is the real time and then of course you miss it.

So, in this situation I now often pretend I can't remember the exact time and if the train is at 12.48 I say "oh it's 12.30 or 12.40 or something like that" or even "12 something I think" for as long as I can get away with because even if you have to give the real time on the day, perhaps you might have prevented them scheduling in some other thing too close beforehand that is clearly not going to work.

There's a mini cab firm I used to use that asks what time the train is. Even though I'm booking the cab for the time I want. I always say 15 minutes earlier than it actually is cos if anyone's gonna take it easy thinking they've got time, it should be me, not the driver.
 
Not answering your question, and maybe this won't work for you and your situation.

But for the love of God, don't rush in breathless 3 minutes late. If your going to be late look like you own it. Give it a good 10 minutes or more, or if it's a meeting wait until the second item on the agenda is done with. Then no explanation unless asked for, then if needed an unapologetic explanation.
I hate being late and have never used this, but a friend of mine would always be late to meetings.

When she turned up she was like "wow, you guys are early, I've got this meeting down as" x time later. Can't wait to work with such a keen and enthusiastic team! Shall we start early then? ". And then unpack her laptop etc.

One of junior Joe's rugby players (U12s) always turns up an hour late to training. Not a problem except the only boys have been training for an hour and are up to speed. He'd walk on the pitch and be totally unprepared, and as such hasn't developed as a player at all.
 
This is tricky in my work place because it's a school. I have a team member who has ADHD and is often late. This impacts on her work, colleagues and the students as she is not there when the school day starts. However she does have ADHD and it is an issue related to poor sleep as well as poor time management. I also have ADHD but have always veered towards the other end, hyperfocus on getting places in time and often early. It's hard to figure out how to support her and also not get pissed off in our environment.

However it sounds like Orang Utan's work could easily make a reasonable adjustment. Leeway of 20-30min as long as he stays longer at the end, at this time he could also do things for the morning that ease the load at opening time (sounds like he already does this) and I doubt it would piss off his colleagues if they are all there on time and he's done stuff to help them and is still working the same amount of time. Anyone else who needs a more flexible approach is also then in a position to ask. I think there's scope under the disability laws to pursue this.
yes. but libraries need a minimum number of staff to open, and ou's lateness could on occasion delay the opening where colleagues are ill.
 
I’ve already been through that process twice - two work capability assessments and waiting for a third.
:(
They don’t buy it as we are open to the public so have to be there on time to open.
They won’t even let me stay later to make up the late minutes even though they have a system they call Flexi (far from it - they just want us to come in earlier than our contracted hours to open up - their fault for making contracted staff shifts start at the same time we open). I don’t mind staying late when I’m late as there is time to do some work while no one is there to interrupt you, so it gets taken out of my leave, which I’m not happy about.
How many members of staff are scheduled on for opening up the shop?
 
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