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HELP - Being diddled out of holiday pay?

SpookyFrank said:
It still is the law but of course it's widely ignored and there's zero enforcement. My previous job, working for a sole employer but on a 'freelance' basis, I never got a brass penny in holiday pay.
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It used to be easy to just go to the HMRC web page that detailed the law on this. It was one very clear page. I detailed what employers must pay, how they should work it out, and how they should pay it. Basically 12.07% on top of everything earned. Forget about paid holiday, you just get paid for the days you worked and 12.07% on top.

So when an employer said "Oh we pay 9% holiday pay" after I submitted an invoice, I would say no, send the HMRC link and tell them I would take it further if they didn't except my invoice. I didn't really know how I would actually 'take it further' but it always worked. I remember one company saying "Oh you are with 'that' union are you". . . . I'm not with a union, but I didn't deny it. After that I looked into the two big TV unions, and quite shockingly one said it was 10.77%, which is not only wrong, and not in favour of the worker, it was clearly laid out by government at the time that freelancers got 12.07%.

Oh it's so annoying.
I can see there is a new email in my inbox from work about this matter (they replied at 10.30 on a friday night !!!). I can't look at it, I know they are going to upset me.
 
ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
Yes I know. . . . but what is creating the huge disparity between the two sums?

Entitled to 28 days per year
Divided by 52 weeks in the year
Multiplied by weeks contracted – 9.6 wks
Equals – 5.17 days - Less two days hol (2nd & 3rd June) – 3.17 days

But if I do it by holiday accrued by days actually worked. . .

Entitled to 28 days per year
Divided by 52 weeks in the year
Multiplied by weeks contracted – 9.2 wks (so not including the bank holidays I didn't work)
Equals – 4.95 days
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You're both doing the sums wrong.
In the first one, the unworked days should be deducted from 'weeks' figure, not the holiday accrued.

The next thing is that you cannot calculate accrued holiday on a 52 week basis because that leaves you no time to actually be on holiday. The sum is 5.6 weeks/46.4 working weeks x weeks worked = accrued holiday.
If they need proof, ask them to use their formula to calculate holiday entitlement for 46.4 weeks and then use mine. Only one of them gives the statutory holiday days.
 
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The percentages being used are worked out thus; 5.6 weeks statutory holiday is 10.77% of the total year which is meaningless and irrelevant. 5.6 weeks holiday is 12.07% of the working weeks available in the year.
 
AnnaKarpik said:
You're both doing the sums wrong.
In the first one, the unworked days should be deducted from 'weeks' figure, not the holiday accrued.
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Yes. I see now this is where they have diddled the £600 from.

AnnaKarpik said:
The next thing is that you cannot calculate accrued holiday on a 52 week basis because that leaves you no time to actually be on holiday. The sum is 5.6 weeks/46.4 working weeks x weeks worked = accrued holiday.
If they need proof, ask them to use their formula to calculate holiday entitlement for 46.4 weeks and then use mine. Only one of them gives the statutory holiday days.
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I am well aware of this (46.6 not 52) and addressed it right at the top.
Yes it's 12.07%, but I am never going to get them to agree to anything other than 10.77%. It drives me nuts but I have come to accept this in the TV biz.
As mentioned, the biggest TV union unhelpfully also says it's 10.77% (divided by 52 not 46.4)
 
ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
Yes. I see now this is where they have diddled the £600 from.


I am well aware of this (46.6 not 52) and addressed it right at the top.
Yes it's 12.07%, but I am never going to get them to agree to anything other than 10.77%. It drives me nuts but I have come to accept this in the TV biz.
As mentioned, the biggest TV union unhelpfully also says it's 10.77% (divided by 52 not 46.4)
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Keep all your records and then when you retire, sue them all for holiday pay you should have got. You can't agree to waive the statutory amount of holiday. Surely this outfit has an accountant on hand who could check the figures? They could be facing a considerable bill if the payroll department are this dim and word gets out.
 
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It's a lot easier using the legal fiction of being a limited company.
The limited company that is Q Ltd bills its customers only for the days I turn up and pays me a flat salary whether I show up or not.
 
Just thought of something else which is no help for now, but could you leave any mention of percentages out of the discussion and talk only about statutory minimum holiday? Then the argument goes to payroll who, one imagines, are more susceptible to mathematical proofs.
 
AnnaKarpik said:
Keep all your records and then when you retire, sue them all for holiday pay you should have got. You can't agree to waive the statutory amount of holiday. Surely this outfit has an accountant on hand who could check the figures? They could be facing a considerable bill if the payroll department are this dim and word gets out.
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You'd think so. . . . but I am so bored of going even slightly down this route.
As mentioned previously, I used to be able to contest it easily because of the HMRC website, but since the tories got in the simple straight forward page telling employers of freelancers has vanished.

If now if someone says "Sorry we pay 10.77% and not 12.07" I say "That's fine, but my day rate has just gone up by a fiver".
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
I’m still confused :oops: :D

Just invoice people at a day rate you’re happy with, what’s the problem with that :confused:
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Nothing. Fill your boots. They are however supposed to pay you 12.07% more than what you ask for. That's just the law.
This does sometimes work out with you getting paid days off within long contracts (It can be quite normal for me to do three months).

It can sometimes work out better though, because a company may have allocated a certain amount of money per day for editors, and tell you that is it, take it or leave it. . . but they will have also left your 12.07% in the budget because they have to. If you don't ask for it you won't get it. They can't give it to you with your pay, because that is rolled up holiday pay, and that is illegal.
 
AnnaKarpik said:
Just thought of something else which is no help for now, but could you leave any mention of percentages out of the discussion and talk only about statutory minimum holiday? Then the argument goes to payroll who, one imagines, are more susceptible to mathematical proofs.
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Been there before. It's always the same. See my previous answer.
 
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