Tim Pool. Investigative journalism in Sweden after Trump allegations on immigration problems

[Anudder Oik]

Of course it fucking isn't. This is part of what has duped you - the idea that this even needs to be demonstrated by someone like old Swampy here.

The more I read of this idiot, the more I'm convinced that he'd be scared shitless just wandering around a council estate in Peckham, where every group of young men he saw, particularly young black men, would suddenly be transformed into 'gangs'.

So, you are implying that the manipulation is not in the video, or in it's language, but in the fact that the video report was made in the first place?

One of the claims by several interviewees is that there are issues and ignoring them is a sure way of playing into the hands of the right and populists as it leads to distrust of the liberal media and government in Sweden.

So, what you are saying is, if trump or the right throw around broad unfounded claims about no go areas, there should be no investigation or response even to prove them wrong? As the investigation itself is somehow suspicious?

 

[Anudder Oik]

This video must just be part of his cover as a right wing extremist. It can't possibly be what it says on the tin.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The right has been bashing Sweden since forever. They seize on every Swedish dysfunction (real or imagined) and make a big fuss over it. Immigration is just the latest angle of attack. They don't care about Sweden or Swedes, what they care about is discrediting the Swedish social model of generous welfare provision, progressive taxation and strong unions. That's what this is all about.

Thirty years ago the Euro-right were attacking Sweden about hardcore porn.
They weren't attacking Belgium or the Netherlands, where kiddie-porn was horrifically-prevalent at the time, though. Wonder why?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The journalist Tim Pool accepted a challenge, and 2000 dollars, offered by a right wing media outlet in the USA to go and check whether Trumps statements about Sweden having problems with immigrants had any base in reality.

Groans were immediately heard from people who suspected that he had been cherry picked and would try to add a right wing spin to his reports. They couldn't have been more wrong.

The result has been a series of video reports which have given a lot of food for thought. He has interviewd journalists, psychologists, immigrants, and even a former Swedish policeman turned social worker (of Afghan immigrant origin). IMO his best interview as it pulls apart State lies that cover up about sexual assaults by immigrants while revealing at the same time that immigrants can integrate and benefit the society they are living in.

In all, it is balanced. The only people who dish him are from the two extremes, the ultra right who want to paint a picture of society verging on civil war and the politically correct who scream racist and stifle debate at the drop of a hat. This latter group are, imo, responsible for the rise in populism as they aren't dealing with issues which effect people's perception or real life experience.

Tim Pool (@Timcast) on Twitter

Tim Pool

Journalism, by its' very nature, is NEVER balanced, either in general or in particular. It can't be "balanced", even when backed by strong fact-checking, because the medium is all about presenting a "side" of an argument, even when it purports to be neutral. Even academic writings aren't "balanced", although they may go through more contortions than journalism in order to present material that is less overtly "unbalanced".

Believe that journalism is balanced, and you might as well believe in the tooth fairy, or that Norwich City FC will win the FA cup.

 

[ViolentPanda]

During the run up to the election spam factories were pumping out fake news to generate click-bait , get shared on Facesuck and the like and create revenue. Most of those videos seem to come under that umbrella , I guess 'left wing' versions are both not getting made and if they were , would not get shared as much as this shite obviously is.

There's a trend - a disturbing one, in my opinion - for people on the right to confuse quantity with veracity. I've lost count of the times that I've argued a point with people who insist something must be true because "it was in all the papers", as if the media aren't part of a supra-national power bloc themselves, with every interest in putting over a particular perspective.

 

[Anudder Oik]

OK so this was a recurring theme in the videos:

The alt-right people (and some of the migrants) were saying that this is censorship and/or denial
The mainstream / liberal / left people (and some of the migrants) where trying to explain they didn't want to engage in this kind of dialogue, labelling, profiling, information collection etc.

Tim Pool didn't really discuss the thinking behind this, he just kept hammering at this 'free speech' and 'truth' thing - kind of like he just assumed that Sweden should adopt a US race-based perspective and that a US-style 'first amendment' approach is the 'only true way' society can or should operate.

The problem here is that the unspoken alt-right (and "neutral" Tim Pool) suggestion seemed to be that the Swedish local government and police should be recording everyone's "race" ?, skin colour?, religion?, place of birth?, parentage?, ethnicity?, immigration and/or refugee status? - and talking about all and every social issue with this information attached - be it crime, unemployment, political views, ability to assimilate, etc.

It implied that this "truthfulness" would therefore expose the "real problems" and therefore allow Sweden to sort out these "problems".

Anudder Oik can you see where this is going yet?

Because of the way Tim Pool structured his questioning the mainstream / liberal / left people didn't really get a chance to explain why this kind of deliberate profiling and labelling is both a) morally wrong on all sorts of levels but also b) not really more 'truthful' either. Some of them suggested that there are a whole range of factors and variables (eg income / poverty /education /exclusion ) that are probably, in fact are, linked to crime levels, for example. Nowhere did Tim Pool suggest that *this* information should be disclosed during criminal trials. The third point c) - that trying to increase social inclusion, trying to integrate refugees and immigrants into Swedish society,is not helped - in fact the opposite - if you start labelling people by race/etc within their first year or two of arriving in Sweden fleeing a war zone.

Tim Pool did talk to various people but he didn't talk to any recently arrived Iraqis or Syrians. Noone who could not speak English. He didn't talk to anyone who actually admitted openly that they are far right or social democrat. He didn't talk to any of these 'drug-dealing gangster types' teenage or older. He didn't manage to find anyone who had been mugged or beaten up on either side of the fence.

He didn't seem to 'get' Swedish culture - in fact in his last video he straight out says he doesn't like Swedish culture. He doesn't like how they deal with social issues - he seems to be suggesting that if only everyone behaved like (Americans?) then all these "problems" would be sorted out. This is a common issue with ex-pats / tourists / etc from wealthier countries - they often get somewhere and decide really quickly that the local way of doing things is stupid. It is only over a longer period of time, maybe with more language skills, personal connections and lived experience and recovery from 'culture shock' that (some of them) start to understand why things are done in certain ways and how things 'work' (or don't).

edit: added word & spelling

I hear what you're saying. The inclusion of ethnicity etc in reporting could increase difficulties for social inclusion but it can also hide a complete lack of possibilities for social inclusion, ie people being trapped in a poverty trap with festering problems in an area of poor housing where only other immigrants live, on the edges from the rest of society. The point made in the videos by immigrants such as the policeman, were that by hiding the problems they are not going to go away, either. And the problem was not just crime related for him as he spoke about the blocks on integration and the acceptance of swedish values; secular society, right to critisize religion, attitudes towards women for example. So, there appears to be a catch 22 situation here. You can't talk about a problem, so you can't deal with the problem and the problem (either crime or integration or poverty) persists, except for people who don't want to talk about it. For them it merely doesn't exist. His angle was that of a social worker who wants to help integration.

They also made the point that the government were not talking about any of it because they don't care, whereas the perception I have is that left/liberal thinking on the subject has fear as it's base. Fear of fuelling the right.
There doesn't appear to be a strategy to deal with problems faced by mass immigration while simultaneously keeping the right at bay.

There are other broader problems in society caused by capitalism such as lowering of living standards, proletarianization of the lower middle classes, etc. Goverments and mainstream media don't speak about these either for the same reason. They have no intention of dealing with these problems and for much media, Guardian, BBC et tal, the working class, the people who are shifting towards populism don't exist unless they are being violent or thick or racist.

Perhaps another problem is to look at these questions in isolation from each other.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hear what you're saying. The inclusion of ethnicity etc in reporting could increase difficulties for social inclusion but it can also hide a complete lack of possibilities for social inclusion, ie people being trapped in a poverty trap with festering problems in an area of poor housing where only other immigrants live, on the edges from the rest of society. The point made in the videos by immigrants such as the policeman, were that by hiding the problems they are not going to go away, either. And the problem was not just crime related for him as he spoke about the blocks on integration and the acceptance of swedish values; secular society, right to critisize religion, attitudes towards women for example. So, there appears to be a catch 22 situation here. You can't talk about a problem, so you can't deal with the problem and the problem (either crime or integration or poverty) persists, except for people who don't want to talk about it. For them it merely doesn't exist. His angle was that of a social worker who wants to help integration.

They also made the point that the government were not talking about any of it because they don't care, whereas the perception I have is that left/liberal thinking on the subject has fear as it's base. Fear of fuelling the right.
There doesn't appear to be a strategy to deal with problems faced by mass immigration while simultaneously keeping the right at bay.

There are other broader problems in society caused by capitalism such as lowering of living standards, proletarianization of the lower middle classes, etc. Goverments and mainstream media don't speak about these either for the same reason. They have no intention of dealing with these problems and for much media, Guardian, BBC et tal, the working class, the people who are shifting towards populism don't exist unless they are being violent or thick or racist.

Perhaps another problem is to look at these questions in isolation from each other.

tl;dr

 

[terapija]

I hear what you're saying. The inclusion of ethnicity etc in reporting could increase difficulties for social inclusion but it can also hide a complete lack of possibilities for social inclusion, ie people being trapped in a poverty trap with festering problems in an area of poor housing where only other immigrants live, on the edges from the rest of society. The point made in the videos by immigrants such as the policeman, were that by hiding the problems they are not going to go away, either. And the problem was not just crime related for him as he spoke about the blocks on integration and the acceptance of swedish values; secular society, right to critisize religion, attitudes towards women for example. So, there appears to be a catch 22 situation here. You can't talk about a problem, so you can't deal with the problem and the problem (either crime or integration or poverty) persists, except for people who don't want to talk about it. For them it merely doesn't exist. His angle was that of a social worker who wants to help integration.

They also made the point that the government were not talking about any of it because they don't care, whereas the perception I have is that left/liberal thinking on the subject has fear as it's base. Fear of fuelling the right.
There doesn't appear to be a strategy to deal with problems faced by mass immigration while simultaneously keeping the right at bay.

There are other broader problems in society caused by capitalism such as lowering of living standards, proletarianization of the lower middle classes, etc. Goverments and mainstream media don't speak about these either for the same reason. They have no intention of dealing with these problems and for much media, Guardian, BBC et tal, the working class, the people who are shifting towards populism don't exist unless they are being violent or thick or racist.

Perhaps another problem is to look at these questions in isolation from each other.

Sorry, billion articles on guardian for instance about this issue. Everyone from George Monbiot to Varoufakis, Piketty to fucking Habermas wrote loads on the subject and were published and given space in various mainstream media in the past 8 years

Edit ...Also the shit you write about in your first paragraph is just not true for 99+% of immigrants. If there are any problems they are about class not about race.

 

[Ranbay]

I havent looked "as i don't know what im on about" but he's done some more videos on that Utube about the Swedish media

 

[Ranbay]

ok, i might be wrong, however i just seen a tweet that he's going to the Netherlands.... however it could be tomorrow land, that big rave thing.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's what his co-journo gets up to.

As residents of Denver it was with shock, horror, and great sadness that members of our collective awoke on July 20, 2012 to news of a mass shooting at a movie theater in nearby Aurora that left 12 people dead and some 59 people wounded. Many of us spent our day anxiously listening to the news, wondering if we knew anyone who had been hurt, or even worse, killed. As the day drug on, and we started to be able to piece together some of the details of the shooting, emotions ran high. We listened intently as family members described watching their children shot, and those of us who are parents held our children close to us, filled with dread and immense despair. All of us spent our day filled with love and empathy for those who had endured such tragedy.

As the morning turned to afternoon, our shock and horror was interrupted by alarm and anger, as we were notified that a group of people were using twitter and online forums to link our organization to the alleged shooter, James Holmes. What seems to have started as an online blog post from a very shady far right-wing blogger that the suspect was a “black bloc anarchist”, had spiraled into an allegation that the shooter was a member of the Denver Anarchist Black Cross. It is with the most vehement and stern feelings that we wish to set the record straight. Not only was James Holmes not a member of the Denver Anarchist Black Cross, but no one we know even knew him or had knowingly ever met him.

The rumor linking our organization to this individual seems to stem from Luke Rudowski, the founder of We Are Change, a right wing conspiracy theory based organization that found its roots in the early days of the Tea Party and has since latched onto the Occupy Wall Street movement. At 3:21pm, he tweeted out the following tweet: “this is going to come out in the MSM soon but my friends in Denver tell me James Holmes was apart (sic) of the Denver Anarchist Black Cross”

 

[Anudder Oik]

Here's what his co-journo gets up to.

Yes, this Rudowski guy is creepy. You imply guilt by association and if their collaboration continues today then you will be absolutely right. Who hasn't regretted hanging out with people who turned out to be creeps? If you find anything that still links them, I'd be interested to know because that would rap things up. They don't seem to do videos together anymore. One they did was a childish prank, going round with remote control devices switching off TV's in NY, very juvenile youtuby stuff, so their joint activity could have been a temporary anecdotal acquaintance, but I'm keeping an open mind.

Tim Pool intends now to go to Holland. To tell you the truth I'm not looking forward to his reports. I'm not sure why (doubts, suspicions due to points raised here?) because his Sweden videos were, I think, positive. Let's see which way it goes.

 

[Pickman's model]

Who hasn't regretted hanging out with people who turned out to be creeps?

yeh it's one thing as so many of us have to hang around with creeps and then when one discovers this to drop them.

but so few of us fly halfway round the world to speak alongside creeps, to creeps, in tehran.

 

[Casually Red]

If it's top heavy with right wing stuff, that's nothing to do with Tim Pool but rather the fact that the left and liberals see the whole subject of problems involving immigrants as a no go zone, a taboo and something to hush up. That leaves the right a free hand to go to town on the matter, while the discredited liberal press and establishment hide behind statistics that somehow fail to convince anyone except the most foolhardy.

Merkel opened the borders and what we got next was UKIP ,Brexit and Trump, AfD etc..a massive swing of the pendulum all over the place . Possibly le pen too . Might as well get used to it . It's the future but when that was pointed out ...because it was so fucking utterly predictable..they all went completely apeshit .

 

[Ranbay]

Yes, this Rudowski guy is creepy. You imply guilt by association and if their collaboration continues today then you will be absolutely right. Who hasn't regretted hanging out with people who turned out to be creeps? If you find anything that still links them, I'd be interested to know because that would rap things up. They don't seem to do videos together anymore. One they did was a childish prank, going round with remote control devices switching off TV's in NY, very juvenile youtuby stuff, so their joint activity could have been a temporary anecdotal acquaintance, but I'm keeping an open mind.

Tim Pool intends now to go to Holland. To tell you the truth I'm not looking forward to his reports. I'm not sure why (doubts, suspicions due to points raised here?) because his Sweden videos were, I think, positive. Let's see which way it goes.

This is news to me.

 

[Tobo]

Yes, this Rudowski guy is creepy. You imply guilt by association and if their collaboration continues today then you will be absolutely right. Who hasn't regretted hanging out with people who turned out to be creeps? If you find anything that still links them, I'd be interested to know because that would rap things up. They don't seem to do videos together anymore. One they did was a childish prank, going round with remote control devices switching off TV's in NY, very juvenile youtuby stuff, so their joint activity could have been a temporary anecdotal acquaintance, but I'm keeping an open mind.

Tim Pool intends now to go to Holland. To tell you the truth I'm not looking forward to his reports. I'm not sure why (doubts, suspicions due to points raised here?) because his Sweden videos were, I think, positive. Let's see which way it goes.

yeh it's one thing as so many of us have to hang around with creeps and then when one discovers this to drop them.

but so few of us fly halfway round the world to speak alongside creeps, to creeps, in tehran.

the worked together after that :
in 2015 Inside The Most Dangerous Place On The Planet, Fukushima Exclusion Zone

and Rudowski interviewed Tim Pool in 2016
Luke Rudkowski talks to documentary filmmaker and journalist Tim Pool

 

[Anudder Oik]

the worked together after that :
in 2015 Inside The Most Dangerous Place On The Planet, Fukushima Exclusion Zone

and Rudowski interviewed Tim Pool in 2016
Luke Rudkowski talks to documentary filmmaker and journalist Tim Pool

Interesting. Do you see an agenda in the recent Tim Pool stuff?

 

[Tobo]

Interesting. Do you see an agenda in the recent Tim Pool stuff?

Definitely.
I live in Sweden (you have to excuse my English) and followed his videos day by day. The video where he claims an attack in Rinkeby, doesn´t show any proof of it and the threat was denied by the police that was there and another danish jourmalist Tinne Hjersing who was in Rinkeby at the time doing some work.
The interwiew that he did when he came back some days after to Rinkeby which he claims is done with locals, wasn´t even done in Rinkeby. He did it in O´learys Sundbyberg and "the locals" were anti-semitic politicians called "De fria". They even boasted about it themselves on Facebook

And there are a lot of other things that are strange with his reporting. Everyone who had an opinon that was pro-trump or against immigrantion, had there identities hidden. There are plenty enough people who dare to say it aloud so it was just to create a mistery and to support the idea of the censorship

I believe his trip to Sweden had an agenda from the beginning and that Tim Pool is an alt-right in disguise or at least "pro altright". There are so many traces of him on websites for example http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2016/08/15/tim-pool-why-im-pulling-out-of-milwaukee/ and he did Foxnews http://video.foxnews.com/v/4926552528001/?#sp=show-clips and appears on Breitbart http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/01/25/journalist-tim-pool-fusion-told-me-to-side-with-young-liberals-regardless-of-the-facts/ before the trip to Sweden

He does some videos once in a while that seems to be "pro-left", but I think that is just part of the plan for him looking non biased and as a serious journalist

 

[Ranbay]

He's doing a ASk Me Anything on Reddit right now. get it, right... lol

 

[Anudder Oik]

He's doing a ASk Me Anything on Reddit right now. get it, right... lol

Just read thru his first 9 comments/answers on there and they are all sound. Gonna continue reading.

 

[Ranbay]

Just read thru his first 9 comments/answers on there and they are all sound. Gonna continue reading.

Have fun etc etc

 

[redsquirrel]

Just read thru his first 9 comments/answers on there and they are all sound. Gonna continue reading.

Yep, no doubt you will.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Yep, no doubt you will.

And your point is?

 

[redsquirrel]

That at the very best you're a fucking mug who is too stupid to connect the dots. More likely you're a prick that purposely overlooks the sewer this bloke swims in to feed your anti-immigration beliefs

 

[Ranbay]

And your point is?

you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I believe his trip to Sweden had an agenda from the beginning and that Tim Pool is an alt-right in disguise or at least "pro altright".

Yep, and surely this is one of the things 'fake news' is for. You disprove it while granting its ideas some legitimacy in the process, and disguise that process as objectivity, an objectivity that openly calls the 'other side's' criticism of the fake news as wrong as the fake news itself.

In this case, on the one side you have people calling it a warzone (not correct, as I've shown in this video), while on the other you have people saying there is no problem with immigration (also not correct, as I've shown in this video).

He positions vile anti-immigration lies and distortions (his videos) as the centrist, objective truth. The absurd 'fake news' that started things off has done its job by facilitating this stance.

 

[Anudder Oik]

That at the very best you're a fucking mug who is too stupid to connect the dots. More likely you're a prick that purposely overlooks the sewer this bloke swims in to feed your anti-immigration beliefs

I ask you your point and you resort to internet heroics. Says a lot about you. Now back up your point or fuck off back to your priveleged goldfish bowl.

 

[Anudder Oik]

you don't know what you are talking about.

I am being objective and not judging the guy until all accusations against him are fully proven, unlike yourself who seems to be content with hearsay.

 

[Ranbay]

I am being objective and not judging the guy until all accusations against him are fully proven, unlike yourself who seems to be content with hearsay.

you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Anudder Oik]

Yep, and surely this is one of the things 'fake news' is for. You disprove it while granting its ideas some legitimacy in the process, and disguise that process as objectivity, an objectivity that openly calls the 'other side's' criticism of the fake news as wrong as the fake news itself.

In this case, on the one side you have people calling it a warzone (not correct, as I've shown in this video), while on the other you have people saying there is no problem with immigration (also not correct, as I've shown in this video).

He positions vile anti-immigration lies and distortions (his videos) as the centrist, objective truth. The absurd 'fake news' that started things off has done its job by facilitating this stance.

So, there are no problems with mass immigration whatsover? Populism being fed by it is not a problem. A changing political panorama in europe is not a problem. The problem is?