Theresa May's time is up

[Teaboy]

You think the EU would have gone ah look at her trying to be inclusive with a plan that at most could get her 5 more votes, let's give her a great brexit deal and forget our wider and longer term interests in punishing all who question us?

She is bound by her own arbitrary red lines, who knows what could or couldn't have been achieved without them. We'll probably never know.

I don't know, I think our Parliament is a shambolic and undemocratic shit hole but if you are going to have this sort of Parliamentary democracy some attempt to recognise it would have been better.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Corbyn.

There's not one single Tory or DUP MP who would prefer - or take the serious risk of - a Corbyn led government over almost any of the Tory prospective leaders.

There's a huge amount of hate and bitterness within the PCP, but there are lots of possibles that the PCP could live with if the alternative was Corbyn.

They have nowhere to go - like the DUP - so they'll stick together through gritted teeth.

I agree but I don't think they can hold together on their own.

 

[Spymaster]

How do the Tories hold together and avoid an Election?

By not holding one. Again, what set of circumstances do you think could evolve that would force them into calling a GE that they think they'll lose?

 

[Spymaster]

I agree but I don't think they can hold together on their own.

What does this mean?

 

[SpackleFrog]

By not holding one. Again, what set of circumstances do you think could evolve that would force them into calling a GE that they think they'll lose?

I'm not saying that they want to call a GE or are likely to want to, just that their current position cannot hold for two years after May goes.

 

[butchersapron]

She is bound by her own arbitrary red lines, who knows what could or couldn't have been achieved without them. We'll probably never know.

I don't know, I think our Parliament is a shambolic and undemocratic shit hole but if you are going to have this sort of Parliamentary democracy some attempt to recognise it would have been better.

I think we all know how the EU would react to anyone of any political stripe and whether they were internally conciliatory or aggressive looking to leave the EU.

What i have enjoyed over this period is people who day in day out slag off MPs for being the most corrupt venal incompetent people in the country demanding that these corrupt venal and incompetent clowns are given the only say over this.

 

[SpackleFrog]

What does this mean?

I think that they'll need to work with non Tory MP's in some way during that period.

 

[Teaboy]

I think we all know how the EU would react to anyone of any political stripe and whether they were internally conciliatory or aggressive looking to leave the EU.

Well, of course. That's what they were always going to do.

What i have enjoyed over this period is people who day in day out slag off MPs for being the most corrupt venal incompetent people in the country demanding that these corrupt venal and incompetent clowns are given the only say over this.

That's not what I've done. I'm only pointing out that her strategy was doomed from the off and remains doomed no matter how many times she tries it. There is a chance that had she approached it in another way she might not be in this mess.

TBH, I'm fast coming to the view that something pretty spectacular is coming in global finance (again) so we may as well get a headstart and just crash out now.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, of course. That's what they were always going to do.



That's not what I've done. I'm only pointing out that her strategy was doomed from the off and remains doomed no matter how many times she tries it. There is a chance that had she approached it in another way she might not be in this mess.

TBH, I'm fast coming to the view that something pretty spectacular is coming in global finance (again) so we may as well get a headstart and just crash out now.

That lst point wasn't direcetd at you btw it was just something that has made me laugh and i wanted to post it while i remembered.

So if it was going to happen whatever then all that about her being able to make something different, something not that inevitable thing if she did things diff doesn't make any sense.

 

[SpackleFrog]

This is quite interesting given that the majority view seems to be that all Tories will choose to support May because there's no other choice. I'm not sure they'll be completely loyal unless something dramatic changes. And if not this time, then next time...

Labour threatens to bring Brexit no confidence vote 'again and again and again'

 

[Spymaster]

I think that they'll need to work with non Tory MP's in some way during that period.

And you think whoever that may be could be persuaded to side with Corbyn to force a GE? Ain't gonna happen.

We've just seen May's flagship policy, her entire reason for being, kicked into touch with the help of the DUP and 100 odd of her own MPs. Tonight, in order to keep their jobs, those same people are going to say that they still have confidence in the government. What's going to change between now and 22?

 

[brogdale]

This is quite interesting given that the majority view seems to be that all Tories will choose to support May because there's no other choice. I'm not sure they'll be completely loyal unless something dramatic changes. And if not this time, then next time...

Labour threatens to bring Brexit no confidence vote 'again and again and again'

They think that at some point she'll (have to) ditch a 'red line' that so angers the swivel-eyed/DUP that they'll be unable to back her.
Attrition

 

[chilango]

This is quite interesting given that the majority view seems to be that all Tories will choose to support May because there's no other choice. I'm not sure they'll be completely loyal unless something dramatic changes. And if not this time, then next time...

Labour threatens to bring Brexit no confidence vote 'again and again and again'

Soubry hinting just now on the BBC that whilst she's supporting the Govt tonight if it came to "no deal" being about to happen she'd put the national interest first i.e. maybe support a future vonc?

 

[belboid]

Soubry hinting just now on the BBC that whilst she's supporting the Govt tonight if it came to "no deal" being about to happen she'd put the national interest first i.e. maybe support a future vonc?

a few have said the same. May's hoped is predicated upon them all believing it wont happen. But as soon as there is a chance it will.....Corbyn has said he'll keep proposing VONC's whenever necessary, so it aint over, even after todays vote probably loses.

 

[Wilf]

I think we all know how the EU would react to anyone of any political stripe and whether they were internally conciliatory or aggressive looking to leave the EU.

What i have enjoyed over this period is people who day in day out slag off MPs for being the most corrupt venal incompetent people in the country demanding that these corrupt venal and incompetent clowns are given the only say over this.

... and there's a kind of 'meanwhile' going on. As the MPs and Euro bods do their dance, the 'other', the people who were so pissed off they voted for brexit occasionally come into view, but nothing changes in terms of the conditions that led people to vote for brexit. Of course I don't think MPs, Corbyn and the rest can actually change those conditions, but as they do their Westminster dance they would be startled if anyone even suggested they should. They've even forgotten that they were going to 'build trust' with the voters.

 

[billy_bob]

... and there's a kind of 'meanwhile' going on. As the MPs and Euro bods do their dance, the 'other', the people who were so pissed off they voted for brexit occasionally come into view, but nothing changes in terms of the conditions that led people to vote for brexit. Of course I don't think MPs, Corbyn and the rest can actually change those conditions, but as they do their Westminster dance they would be startled if anyone even suggested they should. They've even forgotten that they were going to 'build trust' with the voters.

I can't see any plausible outcome at the moment where the 'so pissed off I voted Brexit' people aren't at least as pissed off if not more so than they were on referendum day.

 

[mojo pixy]

Its like some grim absurdist beckett play. "Waiting for Junker"

Happy days eh...

May buried up to her neck in sand. Better still, sitting in her office listening back to recordings of speeches from 2016 and 2017, deliriously hopeless as she tries to convince herself it hasn't all been a colossal waste of effort.

Krapp.

Seriously, Beckett at his worst still more edifying than any of this. Waiting for Brexit.

Blaming on our boots the faults of our feet.

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't see any plausible outcome at the moment where the 'so pissed off I voted Brexit' people aren't at least as pissed off if not more so than they were on referendum day.

all outcomes leave at least half the country pissed off

 

[Pickman's model]

Happy days eh...

May buried up to her neck in sand. Better still, sitting in her office listening back to recordings of speeches from 2016 and 2017, deliriously hopeless as she tries to convince herself it hasn't all been a colossal waste of effort.

Krapp.

Seriously, Beckett at his worst still more edifying than any of this. Waiting for Brexit.

Blaming on our boots the faults of our feet.

may up to her neck in sand listening to recordings of her speeches as the tide rolls in

 

[SpackleFrog]

And you think whoever that may be could be persuaded to side with Corbyn to force a GE? Ain't gonna happen.

We've just seen May's flagship policy, her entire reason for being, kicked into touch with the help of the DUP and 100 odd of her own MPs. Tonight, in order to keep their jobs, those same people are going to say that they still have confidence in the government. What's going to change between now and 22?

No, I don't, I think stopping Corbyn is a point of unity across parties.

 

[SpackleFrog]

They think that at some point she'll (have to) ditch a 'red line' that so angers the swivel-eyed/DUP that they'll be unable to back her.
Attrition

Maybe. I definitely think if they keep doing it it will go through at some point.

 

[Dogsauce]

...and to add to the post above, people also forget that a majority of labour seats (61%) voted to leave, so that's the figure that needs to be borne in mind, not guff about labour voters or party members as a whole when doing this.

That isn’t as significant as it sounds, because I imagine the majority of labour seats were won with less than 50% of the votes cast anyway. General elections aren’t a binary choice like the referendum is, you only need to please about 40% of the people. That said, I don’t think it would be helpful for Labour to face an election where Brexit would be the main issue, as their position isn’t clear even to people paying attention. They’d do better making it about something else.

 

[chilango]

Gove giving his audition speech there

 

[teqniq]

Murdoch's wet dream, Gove in charge of the vermin.

 

[Dogsauce]

Soubry hinting just now on the BBC that whilst she's supporting the Govt tonight if it came to "no deal" being about to happen she'd put the national interest first i.e. maybe support a future vonc?

Did she just say that because all Tory MPs are contractually required to say ‘in the National Interest’ at least five times during any media appearance?

Of all the vacuous soundbites in circulation this is the one that makes me feel most like punching the telly.

 

[cupid_stunt]

So, a whole fucking day wasted in Parliament today.

Well done Corbyn.

 

[Artaxerxes]

So, a whole fucking day wasted in Parliament today.

Well done Corbyn.

Yeah it's all Corbyns fault we're 72 days away from a cock up.

 

[butchersapron]

So, a whole fucking day wasted in Parliament today.

Well done Corbyn.

They could have got on with passing great laws we all support otherwise.

 

[butchersapron]

A whole day!!!!!!

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's not just a wasted day, Corbyn is now going to be under massive pressure to support a 'people's vote', despite the fact he doesn't want one.