The war and "the left" - what do "we" do?

[zahir]

Liked for being uncharitable not for the article.

 

[Shechemite]

I thought it was good. If a bit shouty. Sole focus on the conditions of/solidarity between those ‘in work’ though means I can’t take their professed universalism seriously, and it results in the tendency of even decent socialists to not see the conditions of and solidarity between the useless/defective proletariat.

Actions such as I’ve linked below may not be radical enough for some, but i think it’s more effective and more socialist than our Australian comrades putting out communiques

Cheeverstown walk for Ukraine

A LOCAL group for people with intellectual disabilities raised over €1,800 for people in Ukraine after holding a sponsored walk in the Phoenix Park last week. Last Tuesday, March 8, the ten members of the Tallaght Village-based Arch Club, which is run by Cheeverstown House, set off on a 2.5k...

www.echo.ie

Australian anarchist communists respond to the Freedom "westsplaining" article:

Now Isn't the Time to Shut Up About NATO: Responding to Freedom News

Since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine a resurgence of campism has occurred across the international socialist movement. Campism, whether it is stalinists providing support to brutal dictators such as Assad and Putin because they oppose the west, or 'anarchists' supporting NATO...

www.acmeanjin.org

Although, being uncharitable, there is a little part of me that thinks they could have perhaps condensed the whole article down to this bit:

 

[hitmouse]

Another squat in Cologne last week:

Geisterhaus in Köln-Sülz: Demonstranten besetzen leerstehendes russisches Gebäude

www.ksta.de

 

[Dystopiary]

Sole focus on the conditions of/solidarity between those ‘in work’ though means I can’t take their professed universalism seriously, and it results in the tendency of even decent socialists to not see the conditions of and solidarity between the useless/defective proletariat.

Actions such as I’ve linked below may not be radical enough for some, but i think it’s more effective and more socialist than our Australian comrades putting out communiques

Cheeverstown walk for Ukraine

A LOCAL group for people with intellectual disabilities raised over €1,800 for people in Ukraine after holding a sponsored walk in the Phoenix Park last week. Last Tuesday, March 8, the ten members of the Tallaght Village-based Arch Club, which is run by Cheeverstown House, set off on a 2.5k...

www.echo.ie

 

[Serge Forward]

Australian anarchist communists respond to the Freedom "westsplaining" article:

Now Isn't the Time to Shut Up About NATO: Responding to Freedom News

Since the beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine a resurgence of campism has occurred across the international socialist movement. Campism, whether it is stalinists providing support to brutal dictators such as Assad and Putin because they oppose the west, or 'anarchists' supporting NATO...

www.acmeanjin.org

Although, being uncharitable, there is a little part of me that thinks they could have perhaps condensed the whole article down to this bit:

The article is pretty much spot on. Yes, that condensed bit is indeed the main point but it's still worth taking apart the abysmal westplaining article in Freedom. This bit was also worth saying:

So no, we will not "shut the fuck up" about NATO, because doing so would mean being silent at the very time when the socialist movement needs to be at its loudest about imperialism and the need to reject all attempts at allying the working class with its rulers, rather than the workers of the world. This mistake has been made before and we can't afford to make it again.

 

[Serge Forward]

Actions such as I’ve linked below may not be radical enough for some, but i think it’s more effective and more socialist than our Australian comrades putting out communiques

It's a good thing. But how do you know the Australian comrades are not doing that sort of thing as well? I've been involved in solidarity or charity work, collecting necessities like sleeping bags, paracetemol/ibuprofen and toiletries to the local Ukrainian centre, which they've then been taking directly to Ukraine. But as an ACG member who writes occasional articles for our website, I don't really need to write an article about this.

Yes, such social solidarity and charitable activities are important, but for groups like the Anarchist Communist Meanjin and the ACG, so is developing the political understanding of what's happening here. The politics with a big "P" bit is kind of what we do and it's not a case of collecting money and sleeping bags, etc, is "more effective and more socialist".

We are currently witnessing long established Anarchist publications like Freedom taking a clear "anarcho-trenchist" position. For those who don't know, this is a term relating to WW1 when Kropotkin and a number of other prominent anarchists seriously let themselves down by supporting the allied powers, and were effectively calling for workers to willingly enter into the carnage of the trenches. The articles in Freedom are following the same trajectory, with added cold war campist politics thrown in for good measure. For us, such a position really needs challenging. So for groups like the ACM and the ACG, it's an important thing to be doing. See, we're kind of big on not repeating earlier mistakes in history.

 

[LDC]

What does the 'no war but the class war' position actually practically translate into for people in Ukraine rather than people outside Ukraine Serge Forward? Refusing to fight the invasion and Russian military at all in any way? Or only in a way that's completely detached from anything to do with the Ukrainian State and military?

Or is it really not something that's useful or relevant for people there at all, but just a political position that people not in danger here can take to make a point?

 

[LDC]

French trade unions plan workers’ convoy to Ukraine

Solidaires, a French trade union confederation, is organising a convoy to take aid to workers’ organisations in Ukraine. “We know that the real victims of war are the people, the working people”, a…

peopleandnature.wordpress.com

French trade union convoy and support to Ukraine workers and unions there. Simon's website is one of the best resources for info on what's going on there I think.

 

[zahir]

Podcast recorded a couple of weeks ago.

In this podcast we want to find out what Ukrainians involved in its social movements are thinking about the conflict. Where do they think the war is going? What are their thoughts about the apparent rifts in the global left response? What should solidarity look like?

The State of Power podcast spoke to Denys Gorbach and Denis Pilash, who are both activists on the editorial board of the left Commons journal that explores and analyses Ukraine’s economy, politics, history and culture.

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, I think the point is not just to do apolitical charity stuff (although that is worth doing and has its place) or to just come up with principled theoretical analysis in a vacuum (although that also has its place), but to find a way to put your analysis into practice as some kind of a material force, even if it is a very small one in the grand scheme of things. Praaah-xis, or whatever. As far as I can see, ABC Dresden seem to be doing that more effectively than any other Western anarcho group. That French appeal also sounds worthwhile, fwiw Pirani also links to this new UK effort:

No war on Ukraine: appeal for a broad movement

nowaronukraine.org

Also, as positions from Australian groups go, saw there's this from the Melbourne lot:

MACG: the working class has no side in this clash of empires

This article first appeared in The Anvil Vol 11 No 1, published 28 February 2022. Note: As we go to press, it is apparent that Russian forces are making less progress than observers predicted. They…

www.redblacknotes.com

Which is very nwbcw for a lot of it, but also endorses armed resistance to the occupation, so I dunno if that makes them anarcho-trenchists or not.

 

[LDC]

I can't help but always read that in my head as anarcho-trenchcoatists.

 

[charlie mowbray]

"Anarcho-trenchist" was first used by the Russian anarchist Alexander Ghe about Kropotkin, Jean Grave , Malato and co. who took the side of the Allies. It was later enthusiastically picked up by Lenin to have a go at anarchists.

 

[Serge Forward]

It's a fair question LynnDoyleCooper and there are no easy answers (well there are, but they're not my answers). I can only say that it practically translates into, not much.

For those on the ground, defending their friends, neighbours, comrades, and their homes, it's totally understandable to want to defend all of those things... and yes, that may mean being part of a national (in some cases nationalist) struggle against Putinist invasion is also understandable in that context.

But it's also totally understandable to try to get the fuck out of there. If I was in Ukraine, I'd probably take the "get the fuck out" position (hypothetically, as an over 60, I'd be unlikely to be conscripted, but I'd also be telling my adult sons to get the fuck out), that or be more in line with what the Assembly group are up to.

Any 'no war but the class war' pronouncements will have zero effect on those in Ukraine who are having to endure all this. That doesn't mean defence of the internationalist position is wrong or shouldn't be defended. I'd say it's vital that we maintain a level of internationalist intransigence, especially when others are falling by the campist wayside.

And let's not forget, Freedom's anarcho-trenchist position will also have zero effect on the lives of people suffering in Ukraine, as will any other anarchists' and sections of the left's support for NATO.

 

[hitmouse]

Another newish interview:

Interview mit einem anarchistischen Aktivisten aus Kiew | Interview with an anarchist activist from Kyiv – Anarchismus in Karlsruhe

anika.noblogs.org

eta: and another:

Interview: Operation Solidarity in Ukraine - Freedom News

This article sees the 161 Crew talking to one of the founders of the Ukrainian anarchist initiative about their project, the global solidarity response from libertarians and operating in a complex warzone. First of all thank you for finding time to answer some questions. Can you tell us bit more...

freedomnews.org.uk

 

[emanymton]

For those on the ground, defending their friends, neighbours, comrades, and their homes, it's totally understandable to want to defend all of those things... and yes, that may mean being part of a national (in some cases nationalist) struggle against Putinist invasion is also understandable in that context.

But it's also totally understandable to try to get the fuck out of there. If I was in Ukraine, I'd probably take the "get the fuck out" position (hypothetically, as an over 60, I'd be unlikely to be conscripted, but I'd also be telling my adult sons to get the fuck out), that or be more in line with what the Assembly group are up to.

Yeah one thing no one on the left should be doing in my opinion is criticising people who choose to fight or people who choose to leave, or stay and not fight for that matter. All are reasonable choices if you ask me.

 

[hitmouse]

Any 'no war but the class war' pronouncements will have zero effect on those in Ukraine who are having to endure all this. That doesn't mean defence of the internationalist position is wrong or shouldn't be defended. I'd say it's vital that we maintain a level of internationalist intransigence, especially when others are falling by the campist wayside.

And let's not forget, Freedom's anarcho-trenchist position will also have zero effect on the lives of people suffering in Ukraine, as will any other anarchists' and sections of the left's support for NATO.

On this bit, I kind of think "yes and no" - like, there's obviously not much we can do to to stop the war or whatever, but I think that, if people want to make it a priority, there is stuff that relatively small and marginal groups of anarchos/lefties can do to practically assist the work of other relatively small and marginal groups of anarchos/lefties that we think is good and worthwhile. I'm repeating myself here, but what ABCD have been doing is one example of that, the French union thing is another. One of the many French CNTs is now running a collection for Operation Solidarity as well.

 

[Dystopiary]

French trade unions plan workers’ convoy to Ukraine

Solidaires, a French trade union confederation, is organising a convoy to take aid to workers’ organisations in Ukraine. “We know that the real victims of war are the people, the working people”, a…

peopleandnature.wordpress.com

French trade union convoy and support to Ukraine workers and unions there. Simon's website is one of the best resources for info on what's going on there I think.

I like that person. But again with the “We know that the real victims of war are the people, the working people” - it ignores the people who don't work, who can't work. (IYes, know they weren't his words, but the ones he reproduced.) As Shechemite put it above, "the tendency of even decent socialists to not see the conditions of and solidarity between the useless/defective proletariat." I'm not trying to be awkward, I totally get what they mean, but we cannot ignore this point.

 

[LDC]

Yeah one thing no one on the left should be doing in my opinion is criticising people who choose to fight or people who choose to leave, or stay and not fight for that matter. All are reasonable choices if you ask me.

I agree, and from what Serge Forward has said a few posts above so do they. So really doesn't the NWBTCW position lose much of its meaning if the actual reality of it is 'NWBTCW, apart from those people fighting to defend their homes, etc.' as Serge said. You're basically then defending a purely theoretical political position that then has no basis in the reality on the ground surely?

Just for clarity, I don't mean that as a dig, just trying to understand what it actually means. I do think, for example, it would have much more meaning and traction in Russia thsn Ukraine. In Ukraine I just don't see it as grounded in what's happening really, but happy to be corrected!

 

[emanymton]

On this bit, I kind of think "yes and no" - like, there's obviously not much we can do to to stop the war or whatever, but I think that, if people want to make it a priority, there is stuff that relatively small and marginal groups of anarchos/lefties can do to practically assist the work of other relatively small and marginal groups of anarchos/lefties that we think is good and worthwhile. I'm repeating myself here, but what ABCD have been doing is one example of that, the French union thing is another. One of the many French CNTs is now running a collection for Operation Solidarity as well.

It is tempting to say what we do and say on the left doesn't mean much, I do it myself all the time. Then I remember that a few years ago a top figure in the STWC was in the running to be PM.

And I wonder if things we do and say now could matter at some point?

 

[emanymton]

I agree, and from what Serge Forward has said a few posts above so do they. So really doesn't the NWBTCW position lose much of its meaning if the actual reality of it is 'NWBTCW, apart from those people fighting to defend their homes, etc.' as Serge said. You're basically then defending a purely theoretical political position that then has no basis in the reality on the ground surely?

Just for clarity, I don't mean that as a dig, just trying to understand what it actually means. I do think, for example, it would have much more meaning and traction in Russia thsn Ukraine. In Ukraine I just don't see it as grounded in what's happening really, but happy to be corrected!

I don't think NWBTCW really stands up as a theoretical position. It is a fine slogan for use if you are active in an imperialist aggressor country. But completely falls apart when in the country being invaded and bombed.

I think the deeper root of the slogan is the notion that our positions should always consider what is in the best interests of the working class as a whole. While that is oftern not obvious I do think it is pretty clear that what is in the interests of the Ukranian working class right now is for Russia to be defeated.

Yes that means siding with the Ukranian state to an extent but there are times when the interests of the state and the interest of the working class overlap, they never align, they are never the same but they can overlap. And it is that lack of alignment that causes a lot of political struggle.

 

[Serge Forward]

I agree, and from what Serge Forward has said a few posts above so do they. So really doesn't the NWBTCW position lose much of its meaning if the actual reality of it is 'NWBTCW, apart from those people fighting to defend their homes, etc.' as Serge said. You're basically then defending a purely theoretical political position that then has no basis in the reality on the ground surely?

Just for clarity, I don't mean that as a dig, just trying to understand what it actually means. I do think, for example, it would have much more meaning and traction in Russia thsn Ukraine. In Ukraine I just don't see it as grounded in what's happening really, but happy to be corrected!

Unless we're directly involved in a dispute, local campaign or whatever, then how much of what any of us say or do makes any difference? Very little, given that organisations such as ours are miniscule and our website posts are read by hardly anyone, in the scheme of things. And unless you're in the middle of that war, and happen to have bombs falling around you, then surely everything is theoretical, whether it's from a NWBTCW or trenchist position. Most things in the world are "a purely theoretical political position" which hardly anyone is directly involved in, but this doesn't necessarily make these positions wrong, or not to be taken seriously, otherwise no one would ever say owt about nowt unless we were knee deep in battlefield blood and bodies.

And for the record emanymton I wouldn't describe joining the teritorial defence, shouting "Slava Ukraini" and defending the motherland as a reasonable choice, or in any way the right choice. I said it's understandable. But that's not the same thing as reasonable in my book.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

WW1 was a conflict between imperialist alliances, a result of an arms race and various jockeyings for power amongst the political and military elites of Europe. Maybe a large amount of accident too. There was an international campaign against war from left wing worker's organisations in nearly all countries, which continued with varying degrees of intensity once the war started. There were differences in the imperialist ambitions of Germany, Russia, France, UK etc but it was all pretty much the same sort of stuff. In that situation Kropotkin was just plain daft to back one side against the other. The situation today in the Ukraine is very different. One imperialist power, Russia, has attacked another country, a former part of its Empire, and committed despicable crimes against the country, its people and environment, and against humanity in general. Our emotional support, if nothing else, should go to the peoples of the Ukraine, the good, the bad, those who stay and fight, those who get out as quick as they can, those who have no choice either way.

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, I think we should always be alert to the ways the interests of the state and the wc don't line up - like I think "we" should oppose conscription, support men being allowed to leave the country, probably support looting and all that, even though it all undermines the war effort. But I'm still not convinced that means that everyone who is staying and fighting has just got it wrong.

 

[hitmouse]

For what it's worth, there's an anti-war demo in London coming up that's a bit different to the StW approach:

March against the Russian invasion of Ukraine

PCS is supporting a union-led march and rally in London on Saturday 9 April

www.pcs.org.uk

UNIONS STAND WITH UKRAINE

Labour Movement Demonstration – Assemble Parliament Square,12:00 noon, Saturday 9 April London – followed by rally at Downing Street. A major demonstration of Labour Movement solidar…

ukrainesolidaritycampaign.org

 

[LDC]

Long interview with Simon Pirani

Simon Pirani: ‘Our movement needs a different politics that is concerned with Ukrainian and Russian people not governments’

April 1, 2022 — Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal — Interview with Simon Pirani, socialist writer and editor of peoplenature.org by Sohrab Rezvani. This interview was conducted in the second week of March.

links.org.au

 

[ska invita]

Long interview with Simon Pirani

Simon Pirani: ‘Our movement needs a different politics that is concerned with Ukrainian and Russian people not governments’

April 1, 2022 — Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal — Interview with Simon Pirani, socialist writer and editor of peoplenature.org by Sohrab Rezvani. This interview was conducted in the second week of March.

links.org.au

good interview, agree with everything there
the most interesting bit for me is the idea that Maidan wasn't just something that needed dishing out retribution for, but struck fear in the Kremlin itself

 

[LDC]

This article doesn't fit into any thread I can see neatly, but here ya go, a Hard Crackers piece on being Ukrainian in the US and reflections on that and what's going on.

Finding Ukraine in the US

I have not been alive, until now, for an invasion of a country in which I personally know dozens of people. I didn’t work or live in Ukraine as an adult; my relation to it resembles that of a dia...

hardcrackers.com

 

[chilango]

I think there's a danger of being too - I dunno - absolutist about the "No War but the Class War" position.

Would, for example, holding an NWBTCW postion lead to one taking the same actions in Lviv as in Mariupol as in Kyiv as in Donetsk? I doubt it. The conditions on the ground vary.

At the same time say you shoot a Russian soldier dead. At that moment does it matter or make any difference whether you are an Anarchist-Communist. an Asov Battalion neo-Nazi or professional soldier in the Ukrainian Armed Forces? No. What makes the difference is what leads up to that moment and what happens afterwards. That's where taking an NWBTCW position in the discussions and activity is different from taking a Nationalist one.

At some point the war in Ukraine will change (or end). It won't stay as a desperate defence against invading forces forever. The motivations of those who had been fighting to defend themselves will - no doubt - influence how they respond to the changed situation (in whatever direction it takes). That will be an important period of time I think.

 

[hitmouse]

A few things that could go in a few threads, but I'm putting them here:

Eric King Speaks | 2 Radical Ukrainian Voices | The Final Straw Radio Podcast

thefinalstrawradio.noblogs.org

Not listened to the whole thing yet, but this is a really interesting interview so far (you can skip to 33 minutes in if you just want to listen to the Ukraine segments*). Should hopefully be a transcript soon for people who don't like listening to things. The interviewer asks Maria from ABC Kyiv about "the NATO question" and her answer is kind of just "do you really think that all these leftists will have any impact on what NATO does?" And it's a fair line of questioning - it's tempting to say that "taking positions on what's happening in Ukraine" is just abstract and theoretical, whereas opposing (or even supporting) what "our state" does is more practical, but is it actually?

Other things:
Along with the Italian dockers' action mentioned above, it looks like Greek workers linked to the KKE have also been refusing to handle tanks for Ukraine:

Greek Railroad Workers Block Delivery of U.S. Tanks to Ukraine - Left Voice

In a clear signal to the workers of Europe, railroad workers in Greece managed to block a shipment of U.S. tanks to Ukraine for more than two weeks.

www.leftvoice.org

Mentioning this not because I think it's necessarily a good action that should be supported, but cos I think it shows "we're a long way from the fighting so there's nothing we can do" up as a cop-out, again there are practical things that those of us in countries that aren't Russia or Ukraine can do, so the challenge is to work out which practical things are helpful and which are counterproductive.
The Antifa International collective and Brighton ABC are both doing fundraiser shirts for Ukrainian comrades:

SUPPORT UKRAINIAN ANTIFASCISTS | Bonfire

100% of the proceeds will go directly to Ukrainian antifascists!. This month we are raising money for Rev Dia and the Resistance Committee - two Ukrianian anarchist networks...

www.bonfire.com

Death to Imperialism- Ukraine solidarity tshirt from Brighton Anarchist Black Cross

Death to Imperialism- Ukraine solidarity tshirt from Brighton Anarchist Black Cross

brightonabc.bandcamp.com

Again, posted not as an automatic endorsement of either shirt (apart from anything else, I reckon I'd feel a bit daft walking around with a picture of a gun on my chest, and these both have pictures of guns on), but to illustrate that finding groups who you feel some degree of affinity with and then raising funds for them as best you can is one thing that relatively small groups far from the war can practically do.

*although I would also say you should listen to the Eric King bit and then make phone calls/emails to oppose his transfer.

 

[The39thStep]

Left Bloc in Portugal ( who have 5 seats in the Portuguese Parliament) issued this statement from artists and academics etc in their sphere ( google translate version)

Democracy, reason for the repudiation of the invasion of Ukraine

We condemn the aggression by the Russian Federation, which has already caused many hundreds of deaths, thousands of injuries, millions of displaced people and a wave of destruction.

The immediate pretext for the invasion of Ukraine was the claim by Vladimir Putin that the people of that country have no right to self-determination and cannot form an independent state. Whoever signs this appeal expresses their vehement rejection of this imperial threat. We condemn the aggression by the Russian Federation, which has already caused many hundreds of deaths, thousands of injuries, millions of displaced people and a wave of destruction. We uncompromisingly defend the national law of the Ukrainian people: democracy depends on this first condition - respect for sovereignty, which requires the non-interference of other States in the free decision of the Ukrainian people about their destiny.

In the Russian Federation itself, the democratic opposition that has faced the repression of Putin's authoritarian regime is now rising en masse against the continuation of Russian imperialist aggression. Many thousands of arrests in the first weeks of the war attest to the courage summoned by this movement.

We express our support for the Ukrainian resistance and call on the Portuguese Government to play its part, both in welcoming Ukrainian war refugees or Russian political asylum seekers, and in applying sanctions against the political and economic elite of the oligarchic regime in Moscow, as well as in supporting the exercise by the Ukrainian people of their right to self-defence. We refuse to turn this solidarity into an impetus for a new Cold War, through the reinforcement of NATO or the creation of a European army, in a new arms race. Those are the drifts that open the way to a widening of the conflict and the confrontation between nuclear powers.

Instead of authoritarian escalation, we are fighting for the withdrawal of the occupying army from Ukraine, for the punishment of war crimes and for a Peace Conference, under the auspices of the UN, that guarantees the security of the populations, the first of the goods to be preserved in the present context.

This is the hug we extend to Ukrainian immigrants living in Portugal!