The war and "the left" - what do "we" do?

[RD2003]

There's some info going around about the Italian union USB (Unione Sindacale di Base) refusing to load weapons bound for Ukraine, and it's been a bit promoted here by some of the 'no war but the class war' ultraleft types and others. Ignoring that for the moment, the USB have an interesting take on the events when you start to have a look through their posts in the last few months. A quick translation of a bit here for example...

Appeal of the Trade Union Federation of the Lugansk People's Republic to the world community with the demand to stop the war in Donbass!

National, 21/02/2022 14:33

The war unleashed by Kiev in 2014 against the citizens of Donbass can no longer be ignored! After seven years, the bombings, sabotage and provocations of the Ukrainian armed forces still devastate the territory of the Donbass. In all these years of bloody war, thousands of our civilians have been killed and tens of thousands of destinies have been destroyed!

In the last few days, the situation on the front line has significantly worsened. Ukrainian armed forces cruelly and cynically bomb our territory and continue to increase their military potential. Contrary to common sense and international agreements, Kiev continues to concentrate men and heavy military equipment along the entire front line. Now the Ukrainian aggressor plans not only to continue provocations on the front line, but also to organize a deep penetration into the territory of our Republic.

For all these years, we have been calling on the international community to stand up for the innocent civilians of the Donbass. Today we demand an end to the conflict and the protection of our people's right to life and freedom. Silence is a crime!

Kiev is a puppet in the hands of the US, NATO and their allies. To please its masters, Kiev is now fomenting war with renewed power, preparing to launch a full-scale attack on the Donbass. And this bloody madness is happening with the consent and complicity of the US, EU and NATO.

The Trade Union Federation of the Lugansk People's Republic calls on the Kiev authorities and their protectors to stop the murderous plans and bloody madness! We are ready to defend our families, our homes, our land.

We are for the Minsk agreements!

We appeal to all international organizations, trade unions, social movements and our comrades. Think and stop those who want to kill! Stop the war! It is within our common power!

Save the people of Donbass from the Ukrainian army.

View attachment 314711

Why cunts? The Minsk agreement could have prevented this needless slaughter.

 

[Sue]

I'll take some pix if I remember. (Think there was something about 'more trees and more refugees' and some other ones but...)

Specially for you hitmouse.

 

[danny la rouge]

Specially for you hitmouse.

View attachment 315036View attachment 315037

Is the twink on the right wearing a fashjacket?

 

[Sue]

Is the twink on the right wearing a fashjacket?

I'll ask if I see them out flyposting... (Can i just point out the curling edges? Need to work on their technique .)

 

[hitmouse]

I'll ask if I see them out flyposting... (Can i just point out the curling edges? Need to work on their technique .)

To be fair, decent flyposting is rare enough these days, it seems a bit much to ask them to be practicing for the winter olympics at the same time.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'll ask if I see them out flyposting... (Can i just point out the curling edges? Need to work on their technique .)

I’d like to know what it says.

 

[Sue]

I’d like to know what it says.

Below
For
Top

 

[hitmouse]

Continuing the postering tangent, spotted this today (as mentioned at the end of that article Lurdan posted):

 

[JimW]

Continuing the postering tangent, spotted this today (as mentioned at the end of that article Lurdan posted):

Toss up which one will feature the most clowns.

 

[hitmouse]

I set 'em up...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Continuing the postering tangent, spotted this today (as mentioned at the end of that article Lurdan posted):

What conclusions do we think the meeting will arrive at? My guess it will be that their particular brand of the ‘Marxist theory of imperialism’ will indeed still be relevant. Perhaps, in fact, never more so…

 

[steeplejack]

What conclusions do we think the meeting will arrive at? My guess it will be that their particular brand of the ‘Marxist theory of imperialism’ will indeed still be relevant. Perhaps, in fact, never more so…

Yes I imagine phrases such as "Now, more than ever..." and encouragment for the rank and file to engage in a process of "patient explanation" in the workplace will be prominent.

 

[Lurdan]

No need to speculate. Mark L. Thomas' summing up at that very meeting are online in HD on facebook.
Here's a very compressed version for people who aren't facebook fans. Or who prefer not to see Mark L. Thomas in HD.

View attachment War-in-Ukraine-Is-the-Marxist-Th (2).mp4


Frankly JimW I think you owe poor old clowns an apology.

 

[hitmouse]

It's good that they've started giving their one a middle initial, I remember they used to advertise him as just "Mark Thomas" for ages and I always thought he needed a "but not the one you're thinking of so don't get your hopes up" disclaimer.

 

[DaveCinzano]

It's good that they've started giving their one a middle initial, I remember they used to advertise him as just "Mark Thomas" for ages and I always thought he needed a "but not the one you're thinking of so don't get your hopes up" disclaimer.

A bit like when they announced Jon Holmes would be taking over The Eleven O' Clock Show

 

[The39thStep]

I wonder how long it would take to get a "Clarity of ideas" on these boards .

 

[nogojones]

Continuing the postering tangent, spotted this today (as mentioned at the end of that article Lurdan posted):

Sellotape!

What has become of the world

 

[DaveCinzano]

Sellotape!

What has become of the world

 

[ska invita]

Sellotape!

What has become of the world

thats what i use - a little blue tack to hold it in place and then wide sellotape...wallpaper paste looks too hot and is impractical

 

[LDC]

Article by Bologna and a few others published by Endnotes. Pretty terrible imo.

Manifesto against the war by Sergio Bologna, Rüdiger Hachtmann, Erik Merks, Karl Heinz Roth, Bernd Schrader

Endnotes is a communist theoretical journal produced by a discussion group of the same name based in Britain and the US.

endnotes.org.uk

Reply by Simon Pirani here that's very good imo.

Is this monstrous war of aggression really between two equal sides?

An open letter in response to the Manifesto Against War Dear comrades, I write in anger and sorrow about your Manifesto Against War, to which I turned in the hope of learning from you about how we …

peopleandnature.wordpress.com

 

[emanymton]

Article by Bologna and a few others published by Endnotes. Pretty terrible imo.

Manifesto against the war by Sergio Bologna, Rüdiger Hachtmann, Erik Merks, Karl Heinz Roth, Bernd Schrader

Endnotes is a communist theoretical journal produced by a discussion group of the same name based in Britain and the US.

endnotes.org.uk

Reply by Simon Pirani here that's very good imo.

Is this monstrous war of aggression really between two equal sides?

An open letter in response to the Manifesto Against War Dear comrades, I write in anger and sorrow about your Manifesto Against War, to which I turned in the hope of learning from you about how we …

peopleandnature.wordpress.com

The reply is very good.

 

[Pickman's model]

thats what i use - a little blue tack to hold it in place and then wide sellotape...wallpaper paste looks too hot and is impractical

i think we need a dedicated flyposting thread

the thing about paste is you can slap it on and move on to the next poster far faster than you can use sellotape.

 

[ska invita]

Article by Bologna and a few others published by Endnotes. Pretty terrible imo.

Manifesto against the war by Sergio Bologna, Rüdiger Hachtmann, Erik Merks, Karl Heinz Roth, Bernd Schrader

Endnotes is a communist theoretical journal produced by a discussion group of the same name based in Britain and the US.

endnotes.org.uk

Reply by Simon Pirani here that's very good imo.

Is this monstrous war of aggression really between two equal sides?

An open letter in response to the Manifesto Against War Dear comrades, I write in anger and sorrow about your Manifesto Against War, to which I turned in the hope of learning from you about how we …

peopleandnature.wordpress.com

i havent read the first piece, went straight to Simons one ... Im sure he's basically right.
Just on thing though, re Syria he says:

"The NATO powers stood back and allowed this to continue (while they themselves fought their own wars in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan) for the same reason that they acquiesced in Putin’s actions against Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine: because for all their disavowals of “spheres of influence”, they were content that Russia should act as a gendarme for international capital in certain geographical areas."

-my impression was NATO powers wanted to go in in theory - they were far from content - but a bit like Ukraine now were very rightly worried that getting involved more directly could potentially escalate the situation wider, also it was a war without a clear win and exit strategy. Have I got that wrong?
If Hilary CLinton had won the white house against Trump wasnt going in one of her election aims?

Dont want to derail but it does add to an understanding that Russia has military power and agency, enough of which to sufficiently make NATO back off sometimes - something some people have a problem understanding re Ukraine.

 

[chilango]

I once found a can of some sort of heavy duty spray adhesive (for like DIY or something, not the weak af spray mount stuff). That was very quick and effective.

Also noted that carrying your paste in an empty cider bottle made for great hiding in plain sight. Not so great when aggressive drunks demand a swig.

 

[DaveCinzano]

i think we need a dedicated flyposting thread

the thing about paste is you can slap it on and move on to the next poster far faster than you can use sellotape.

Preparation, preparation, preparation.

Paste made up in double-bagged carrier bag, wide brush in bag

First poster folded over from the bottom with sharp crease at about 5mm, then folded over again, and again, each time with the sharpest possible crease, then tightly roll to make a spine, leaving around 10mm poster at the top.

Bottom 10mm of second poster presented over the top of first poster top 10mm, and tightly rolled in, until top 10mm left; then repeat, each time doing as tightly as possible, until 10 (or 20, depending on thickness) posters rolled together. Hold together with masking tape.

To paste up, grip poster roll in one hand (tape removed) with thumb forward in direction of outermost poster top, and fingers down between outer edge and main roll.

Brush paste onto wall, position top edge of outermost poster, brush down onto pasted wall, use brush to hold poster against wall whilst unrolling length of poster with gripping hand until released at overlapping edge. Brush poster smooth, then lightly brush top later of paste. Repeat with second poster in same fashion.

Best achieved with minimum two person crew (one to hold paste bag, one to do the postering), with preference for additional lookouts.

 

[Pickman's model]

Preparation, preparation, preparation.

Paste made up in double-bagged carrier bag, wide brush in bag

First poster folded over from the bottom with sharp crease at about 5mm, then folded over again, and again, each time with the sharpest possible crease, then tightly roll to make a spine, leaving around 10mm poster at the top.

Bottom 10mm of second poster presented over the top of first poster top 10mm, and tightly rolled in, until top 10mm left; then repeat, each time doing as tightly as possible, until 10 (or 20, depending on thickness) posters rolled together. Hold together with masking tape.

To paste up, grip poster roll in one hand (tape removed) with thumb forward in direction of outermost poster top, and fingers down between outer edge and main roll.

Brush paste onto wall, position top edge of outermost poster, brush down onto pasted wall, use brush to hold poster against wall whilst unrolling length of poster with gripping hand until released at overlapping edge. Brush poster smooth, then lightly brush top later of paste. Repeat with second poster in same fashion.

Best achieved with minimum two person crew (one to hold paste bag, one to do the postering), with preference for additional lookouts.

remember years back about fifteen of us (three person team as you outline) set out to plaster tottenham high road with anti-bailiff posters, we had fucking hundreds. so we got into a van with specific areas to do. one team got caught, and iirc let off with a stern warning that the cops didn't want to see any more of those yellow posters. they were up for months.

 

[Pickman's model]

another time, posting up camden high street for the afa march in october '91, people came up to us and warned us the cops were round the corner - good to have a lookout, better to have people looking out for you

 

[DaveCinzano]

another time, posting up camden high street for the afa march in october '91, people came up to us and warned us the cops were round the corner - good to have a lookout, better to have people looking out for you

Hi-viz, hard hat, step ladder, look of municipal boredom and daylight can also work well.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hi-viz, hard hat, step ladder, look of municipal boredom and daylight can also work well.

like the rolling stones, i always flyposted under cover of the night

 

[hitmouse]

I once found a can of some sort of heavy duty spray adhesive (for like DIY or something, not the weak af spray mount stuff). That was very quick and effective.

Also noted that carrying your paste in an empty cider bottle made for great hiding in plain sight. Not so great when aggressive drunks demand a swig.

Could you get a brush into the bottle, or did you just spray directly onto the wall?