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The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

Drjazzz originally but changed/was made to change his name as moderators feared that the more gullible might fear he was a medical practitioner. Assuming he hasn't succumbed, he must be having time if his life out in the streets heckling the sheeple.
 
It doesn't sit well with me either when people gloat when an anti vaxxer dies for a whole host of reasons but prominently because 1. It's got to really complicate the grief for their family and friends and 2. It feels a short step away from gloating when someone dies of smoking or drinking related injuries. The warnings are out there we're all aware of the risks etc. Imagine if it we're to become commonplace for people to mock those who die painfully of lung cancer with cries of 'idiot! This is why I don't smoke'

I think we're all at risk of temporarily losing our humanity in times of war and massive upheaval and I think this pandemic is such a time.

Example -I had an anti vax client. Lovely, bright, funny, compassionate and vibrant guy. He tried to get my views on it a few times and I would do that counsellor thing of turning it back to his point of reference and exploring his thought processes. But eventually I relented and answered as to whether I'd had the vaccinations and explained my reasoning, so as to offer him another perspective (since he wasn't talking to anyone else who thought differently to him) To me, this was a new kind of safeguarding issue emerging. I didn't try to force my opinion on him one bit, I just shared my own process and decision making.
He got covid during our work together and got very ill for a number of weeks. He sounded dreadful, scared and was reflecting on his mortality and future. We had to miss our next session as he could barely talk, move from bed or take care of himself. I feared for him. When we next spoke he told me he was going to get vaccinated. I was pleased and relieved to hear it. It would have been incredibly sad if he'd died (or suffered life altering complications) as he wasn't some fringe loon, but someone who had been seriously let down and actively discriminated against by doctors, mh professionals, housing orgs, council, police, education and the government. His distrust was understandable given his life experience and circumstances.
 
I think you have to take it on a case by case basis. I genuinely did have sentiments of ‘serves you right you fucking cunt’ at some but also ‘this is terribly sad’ at others reading that sorry antivaxxer website.

Some are just outright crazy like that guy who was literally dying, admitting he was wrong and said he was going to get vaccinated whilst simultaneously posting daily memes about how he will not comply and the plandemic. Wtf!
 
Clair De Lune said:
It doesn't sit well with me either when people gloat when an anti vaxxer dies for a whole host of reasons but prominently because 1. It's got to really complicate the grief for their family and friends and 2. It feels a short step away from gloating when someone dies of smoking or drinking related injuries. The warnings are out there we're all aware of the risks etc. Imagine if it we're to become commonplace for people to mock those who die painfully of lung cancer with cries of 'idiot! This is why I don't smoke'

I think we're all at risk of temporarily losing our humanity in times of war and massive upheaval and I think this pandemic is such a time.

Example -I had an anti vax client. Lovely, bright, funny, compassionate and vibrant guy. He tried to get my views on it a few times and I would do that counsellor thing of turning it back to his point of reference and exploring his thought processes. But eventually I relented and answered as to whether I'd had the vaccinations and explained my reasoning, so as to offer him another perspective (since he wasn't talking to anyone else who thought differently to him) To me, this was a new kind of safeguarding issue emerging. I didn't try to force my opinion on him one bit, I just shared my own process and decision making.
He got covid during our work together and got very ill for a number of weeks. He sounded dreadful, scared and was reflecting on his mortality and future. We had to miss our next session as he could barely talk, move from bed or take care of himself. I feared for him. When we next spoke he told me he was going to get vaccinated. I was pleased and relieved to hear it. It would have been incredibly sad if he'd died (or suffered life altering complications) as he wasn't some fringe loon, but someone who had been seriously let down and actively discriminated against by doctors, mh professionals, housing orgs, council, police, education and the government. His distrust was understandable given his life experience and circumstances.
Click to expand...

Its a bit problematic that anti-vax is used as a catch all phrase as within that there will be a range of views.

Is someone who has not had the vaccine themselves but believes every one should make their own decision really anti-vax? Some people just genuinely believe their body will deal with covid and haven't understood the consequences to the larger population. Some people believe natural or alternative is the only way to go for them but also believe live and let live. It is sad if these people become ill or worse from covid.

Of course then there is the other end of the anti-vax spectrum who are not only telling people not to have the vaccine they are taking direct action to prevent people having access to them. To use the smoking scenario again this is akin to someone who has dedicated their life to telling people smoking is safe and have tried to take action to force people to smoke. In that scenario I would struggle to summon empathy should they be struck down with lung cancer.
 
Teaboy said:
Its a bit problematic that anti-vax is used as a catch all phrase as within that there will be a range of views.

Is someone who has not had the vaccine themselves but believes every one should make their own decision really anti-vax? Some people just genuinely believe their body will deal with covid and haven't understood the consequences to the larger population. Some people believe natural or alternative is the only way to go for them but also believe live and let live. It is sad if these people become ill or worse from covid.

Of course then there is the other end of the anti-vax spectrum who are not only telling people not to have the vaccine they are taking direct action to prevent people having access to them. To use the smoking scenario again this is akin to someone who has dedicated their life to telling people smoking is safe and have tried to take action to force people to smoke. In that scenario I would struggle to summon empathy should they be struck down with lung cancer.
Click to expand...

I have a friend who is a former Marine (assuming there is such a thing). He's avoided the vaccine because he has MS that was attributed to some pharma that he was given during a tour of Afghanistan. He's afraid it will make his MS worse. I don't feel that I can tell him any different.
 
I confess I happily got vaccinated even before I seriously tried to understand the technology, but the basic thing with me has always been that (inoculation) goes back maybe a thousand years where (smallpox) was so awful that people would gladly take a significant risk and be deliberately infected with live virus with the hope of avoiding the full-blown disease.
And most of us were vaccinated as a child and the modern vaccines are another 50 years on and are ideally being given to everyone on the planet - starting with tens of thousands of volunteers and the entire medical profession ...and are the very pinnacle of refinement in terms of cost-benefit....

Whereas the morbid antivaxxers I encounter are always - "yes but..." big pharma ... CDC ... Anthony Fauci ... Bill Gates ...... even "Johnson's Baby Powder" - doubtless the same people are quite likely relatively sexually promiscuous, tattooed, maybe even smokers - certainly drinkers - and eating a dreadful diet and expecting to be heavily medicated to deal with the effects of that ...

How did we arrive here ?
 
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gentlegreen said:
Whereas the morbid antivaxxers I encounter are always - "yes but..." big pharma ... CDC ... Anthony Fauci ... Bill Gates ...... even "Johnson's Baby Powder" - doubtless the same people are quite likely relatively sexually promiscuous, tattooed, maybe even smokers - certainly drinkers - and eating a dreadful diet and expecting to be heavily medicated to deal with the effects of that ...

How did we arrive here ?
Click to expand...

Part of what's causing the mistrust of the vaccines is that big pharma isn't all that trustworthy. If you overlay a map of areas that have been plagued by opiate deaths, they match pretty neatly with where the people are anti-vax. Many of them watched family members go to the doctor for some mild back pain and were prescribed major opiates, who then developed an addiction and later died of an overdose. In addition, many of them are on blood pressure meds (due to their dreadful diet). Those meds have been repeatedly tainted by NDMA, a cancer-causing chemical that develops in the manufacturing process when it's subjected to too much heat. (NDMA is what they give lab rats when they want them to develop cancer, btw). When that occurs, the FDA requires that the patient be sent a letter telling them to not trust the medication they've been taking for years. I've had several such letters. Add to that, the whole system is so expensive that many families end up bankrupt or can't access basic care. Often, they're left with the internet as the only venue for health information they can afford, while the only source of medication they can afford is the local farm store. When they complain of this situation to their lawmakers, they get told "take some personal responsibility." Over time, this wears down people's trust in not only pharma, but the whole medical system, and probably the political system as well. Why trust a non-responsive system they can neither afford or fully access?

That was a bit of rant, wasn't it?
 
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Yuwipi Woman said:
Part of what's causing the mistrust of the vaccines is that big pharma isn't all that trustworthy. If you overlay a map of areas that have been plagued by opiate deaths, they match pretty neatly with where the people are anti-vax. Many of them watched family members go to the doctor for some mild back pain and were prescribed major opiates, who then developed an addiction and later died of an overdose. In addition, many of them are on blood pressure meds (due to their dreadful diet). Those meds have been repeatedly tainted by NDMA, a cancer-causing chemical that develops in the manufacturing process when it's subjected to too much heat. (NDMA is what they give lab rats when they want them to develop cancer, btw). When that occurs, the FDA requires that the patient be sent a letter telling them to not trust the medication they've been taking for years. I've had several such letters. Add to that, the whole system is so expensive that many families end up bankrupt or can't access basic care. Often, they're left with the internet as the only venue for health information they can afford, while the only source of medication they can afford is the local farm store. When they complain of this situation to their lawmakers, they get told "take some personal responsibility." Over time, this wears down people's trust in not only pharma, but the whole medical system, and probably the political system as well. Why trust a non-responsive system they can neither afford or fully access?

That was a bit of rant, wasn't it?
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That, was anything but a rant, even with our NHS on its knees we just don't realise where some members of the governing class want to drag us to. It's posts giving information like this that are so informing
 
Magnus McGinty said:
I know some hesitant types personally and I don’t want them to die. But the types who are actively spreading lies causing others to be hesitant, and possibly die, fuck those cunts.
Why the reaper hasn’t claimed Icke or Corbyn is a fucking tragedy.
Click to expand...

I draw a line between anti-vax people who are using the pandemic as a way to further their own personal interests, such as politicians and radio hosts, and average anti-vax people, who are trying to navigate a medical system they don't trust.
 
High Voltage said:
That, was anything but a rant, even with our NHS on its knees we just don't realise where some members of the governing class want to drag us to.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are so alienated by the current system that they're ditching the medical system entirely. That's why you see so many people say "If I die, I die" when asked about worrying about covid. I've lost of a lot of trust in the system after trying to navigate it several times. I'm trying to wean myself off of blood pressure and other meds and get my health in line, because I'm not entirely sure that contact with the American medical system won't kill me (or bankrupt me instead).
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
A lot of people are so alienated by the current system that they're ditching the medical system entirely. That's why you see so many people say "If I die, I die" when asked about worrying about covid. I've lost of a lot of trust in the system after trying to navigate it several times. I'm trying to wean myself off of blood pressure and other meds and get my health in line, because I'm not entirely sure that contact with the American medical system won't kill me (or bankrupt me instead).
Click to expand...
Yep, I can definitely see that playing into the stuff like ivermectin as well, my American friend who died last year had already been taking goldfish medicine (for non-covid related health issues) for quite a while because it was a lot more affordable than the stuff designed/marketed for humans, so it's not a big jump from that to ivermectin.
 
two sheds said:
Interesting few posts.

Not entirely relevant to the UK yet but I can see it going that way.
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Well, this is the world news and politics forum so relevant here.

We are lucky in the Uk with the NHS.

Thing is, a lot of people will have fallen to the onslaught of propaganda that has been unleashed over the last couple of years and I feel sad for them to be honest, some rather tragic tales.
 
N_igma said:
Some are just outright crazy like that guy who was literally dying, admitting he was wrong and said he was going to get vaccinated whilst simultaneously posting daily memes about how he will not comply and the plandemic. Wtf!
Click to expand...
with some it will be peer pressure from their friends and local culture - I suspect there are people who have quietly been vaccinated but still play along with friends so as not to lose face or appear ‘weak’ and fearful. You do hear crazy stuff like people kicking their adult children out for daring to get vaccinated. It’s incredibly politicised and polarising in the US, you have to do as your tribe says.
 
My regular Paltalk rabbitholer sent another load of the same bullshit to me today via PM ... this time I even went as far as :-

fr.lmgtfy.app

Laisse-moi chercher ça pour toi

Pour tous ceux qui savent pas checher sur google, donner leur ce lien!
fr.lmgtfy.app fr.lmgtfy.app

But they weren't even prepared to copy and paste the results ...

Perhaps they actually know that carbon is the key element for all life and are afraid of letting basic science sneak in ...

Surely "graphene oxide" would be dissolved CO2 ?
No doubt there might actually be some of that in any sample of mostly water anyone managed to test ...

It's cargo cult bullshit - they never read the shit they post ...

I have threatened to go further than put a link to a fileshared text file on my Paltalk profile and actually make a webpage - perhaps seeing it there in black and white would trigger a reaction.

I will have to be careful in case it breaks Paltalk's TOS ...
 
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