The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases

[BigMoaner]

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Love the snootiness by some on this thread.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Love the snootiness by some on this thread.

That's a particular snooty post.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

That's a particular snooty post.

Yeah it’s all in my imagination. No snootiness on here whatsoever. In fact, it’s me who is really the snooty one. Nice gaslighting

 

[LDC]

Love the snootiness by some on this thread.

Yeah, that's so much more worthy of comment than the fucking dangerous idiocy on display by anti-vaccine and anti-lockdown types.

I'm just watching some horrendous footage from inside India's hospitals, maybe you could do with seeing some of that and having a think about your priorities.

 

[dessiato]

I’m always shocked by the attitude of a friend. She was a senior ICU nurse, she doesn’t believe that Covid is real because, “I don’t know anyone who’s died from it.” Despite that she still got the vaccine, she “believes” in vaccines because they work. (She lives part of the year in Florida and is a Trump supporter too)

 

[LDC]

Something I've been thinking for a while is that a like "guide to vaccines for people who hate big pharma" would be really good. Like, I don't like the pharmaceutical companies, and would not suggest that anyone blindly puts unconditional trust in pharma companies, or think that they're motivated by any kind of altruism. I still strongly support people getting vaccinated though. Like, I feel that there's a coherent argument to be made for why you can be pro-vaccine while also being very skeptical about the pharmaceutical industry, I don't think that I'm the person to string all that together though (especially not at 11 on a Saturday night).

I kind of agree, but I have no faith it would make any difference to many of these people. They're having an emotional reaction rather than a logical one, and it'd just be dismissed by most I expect. I'm also really wary of even using the term 'big pharma' - it's just not helpful at all I think and just perpetuates simplistic myths. Pharmaceutical companies operate in conjunction with all sorts of other bodies (NHS, regulators, etc.) and trying to address all the processes and steps that medicines go through and how drugs, bodies, and the immune system works would be a huge task, and would likely just be dismissed by those who seem to think it goes 'big pharma straight into our arms.'

 

[BigMoaner]

Love the snootiness by some on this thread.

I will definitely side with the snooty when it comes to this lot.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Yeah, that's so much more worthy of comment than the fucking dangerous idiocy on display by anti-vaccine and anti-lockdown types.

I'm just watching some horrendous footage from inside India's hospitals, maybe you could do with seeing some of that and having a think about your priorities.

You’ve no idea what my priorities are, or what my beliefs are. If you can’t see how detrimental some of the attitudes on view in the thread are to gaining peoples’ support, then there’s no help for us

 

[BigMoaner]

You’ve no idea what my priorities are, or what my beliefs are. If you can’t see how detrimental some of the attitudes on view in the thread are to gaining peoples’ support, then there’s no help for us

What level of respect do you feel those wearing stars of David yesterday should garner? Or who were screa,img at folk wearing masks?

 

[BigMoaner]

Totally understand how important is to try and work out why people believe this stuff. But being angry at it is also valid.

 

[BigMoaner]

You’ve no idea what my priorities are, or what my beliefs are. If you can’t see how detrimental some of the attitudes on view in the thread are to gaining peoples’ support, then there’s no help for us

We should educate dangerous drivers, we should perhaps learn what factors contribute to dangerous driving. We should have public campaigns to discourage wreckless, selfish dangerous driving.

But if someone is promoting dangerous, reckless driving, and does dangerous reckless driving, society needs to be angry at them.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

What level of respect do you feel those wearing stars of David yesterday should garner? Or who were screa,img at folk wearing masks?

Clearly someone that does that is too far gone to get through to, other than maybe by those closest to them.

But that’s an entirely different thing to the widespread mockery and insult that is thrown at ordinary people that are just misguided.

 

[BigMoaner]

so go fuck yourself about how people should and shouldn't be reacting to these creeps. a lot of people have suffered immensley because of this pandemic and allow them a bit of rage toward these people.

 

[Shechemite]

Escape from authority. That’s why it’s so popular amongst Yanks, descendants of people fleeing Europe/the established church(es). Liberal psychosis.

 

[LDC]

You’ve no idea what my priorities are, or what my beliefs are. If you can’t see how detrimental some of the attitudes on view in the thread are to gaining peoples’ support, then there’s no help for us

We're discussing things where it'll be read by hardly anyone, and of those people I expect next to none will be anti-lockdown types so how we discuss it here is pretty irrelevant tbh, and not how we might engage with people face to face. And if you've followed the discussions we've talked about these demos and people being a mix of types, some with legitimate concerns and reasons to explain where they've ended up where they have, but some of this crowd have significant overlaps with the far and alt right, and those elements need to be treated as such. But even outside that type there's a large individualist pro-capitalist section that is reactionary to the core, and they're dragging other people along with them, and also not insignificant numbers of the lefty/activist/alternative scene with them under the guise of being against 'oppression/government/big pharma'.

And also ridicule and mockery is an entirely legitimate, and possibly sometimes effective, form of response to some of this.

 

[killer b]

You’ve no idea what my priorities are, or what my beliefs are.

Seems a bit funny that. Why not? You'd have thought people who post regularly on the same politics discussion board might get the measure of each other over time.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Seems a bit funny that. Why not? You'd have thought people who post regularly on the same politics discussion board might get the measure of each other over time.

A person is more than who they are on a message board. Plus there are thousands of people that post here.

So yes and no; a certain measure of a person might be possible between those that have had a more than average interaction, but only to an extent.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Clearly someone that does that is too far gone to get through to, other than maybe by those closest to them.

But that’s an entirely different thing to the widespread mockery and insult that is thrown at ordinary people that are just misguided.

You're moaning about ridicule and mockery on a thread entitled 'The stupidity of the anti-vaxx nutcases', WTF did you expect to find when you clicked on it?

 

[BigMoaner]

Clearly someone that does that is too far gone to get through to, other than maybe by those closest to them.

But that’s an entirely different thing to the widespread mockery and insult that is thrown at ordinary people that are just misguided.

I don't actually disagree. but if someone is letting off steam here, using mokery, anger, etc - then is it helpful for someone to bowl up and say "stop being snooty" in as many words?

Jesus, have you not stared at four walls for the past year? Have you not seen how many people have died? Who are dying right now around the world? Did you not have job insecurity, or loose your job? You suffered all of that in the faith that it might protect yourself and others. An extreme form of solidarity, where you forsake a huge swath of your freedoms.

And you're calling someone snooty for showing a bit of anger those at the march yesterday?

That's the ultimate in "gas lighting, no?", namely, your visciral, emotional response is not valid and should be discarded and suppressed?

 

[hitmouse]

I kind of agree, but I have no faith it would make any difference to many of these people. They're having an emotional reaction rather than a logical one, and it'd just be dismissed by most I expect. I'm also really wary of even using the term 'big pharma' - it's just not helpful at all I think and just perpetuates simplistic myths. Pharmaceutical companies operate in conjunction with all sorts of other bodies (NHS, regulators, etc.) and trying to address all the processes and steps that medicines go through and how drugs, bodies, and the immune system works would be a huge task, and would likely just be dismissed by those who seem to think it goes 'big pharma straight into our arms.'

Oh yeah, I imagine a lot of these people are probably beyond reasonable engagement, but for the ones who aren't that might be a good way to go about it? And agreed about how "big pharma" isn't necessarily a helpful term, I was sort of thinking about how to phrase pro-vaccine arguments using language that anti-vaxxers might be less likely to dismiss out of hand?

 

[BigMoaner]

"legacy media" is a new term in these circles.

In other words the old MSM is almost dead.

 

[killer b]

A person is more than who they are on a message board. Plus there are thousands of people that post here.

So yes and no; a certain measure of a person might be possible between those that have had a more than average interaction, but only to an extent.

at best there's hundreds, and regular posters much less - I think I've got the measure of most regulars tbh. you clearly think you do too.

 

[cloudyday]

Oh yeah, I imagine a lot of these people are probably beyond reasonable engagement, but for the ones who aren't that might be a good way to go about it? And agreed about how "big pharma" isn't necessarily a helpful term, I was sort of thinking about how to phrase pro-vaccine arguments using language that anti-vaxxers might be less likely to dismiss out of hand?

I have no problem with using the term big pharma, those bastards should be called out for what they are, their main interest is in patents. Take the Oxford vaccine, they were not allowed to operate unless saddled to AZ who are notorious in their use of patents. Bill Gates will not allow vaccine to be produced in countries other than those on the accepted list. I see no problem in separating discussion of this from the dubious conspiracies of certain placard waving head the balls.

 

[LDC]

I have no problem with using the term big pharma, those bastards should be called out for what they are, their main interest is in patents. Take the Oxford vaccine, they were not allowed to operate unless saddled to AZ who are notorious in their use of patents. Bill Gates will not allow vaccine to be produced in countries other than those on the accepted list. I see no problem in separating discussion of this from the dubious conspiracies of certain placard waving head the balls.

Maybe talk about capitalism and how markets operate and companies seek profit then, not some conspiracy theory term that's a red flag for nonsense?

 

[BigMoaner]

Queuing at Croydon dump. Weird synchrosity. If you don't hear from me again, check thay container.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

In my experience, there’s no one snootier than anti-vaxxers: ‘wake up sheeple’, or some variant there of, is their rallying cry.

 

[keybored]

Queuing at Croydon dump. Weird synchrosity. If you don't hear from me again, check thay container. View attachment 264866

"You can't dump those air fresheners in that container mate, deciduous is round the back."

 

[Cloo]

I think most people on this thread are clearly denigrating behaviours demonstrated (which, IMO, deserve denigration) rather than classing the people who have them in some snooty fashion.

 

[cloudyday]

Maybe talk about capitalism and how markets operate and companies seek profit then, not some conspiracy theory term that's a red flag for nonsense?

big pharma = pharmaceutical capitalism. it is shorthand for the subject of intellectual property rights and pharmaceutical domination by corporations.

it is not a conspiracy term.