Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The social cleansing of social housing.

ive got a question about foreign investors...they're buying these flats to make money off them as the value is projected to go up over time...from what I read in the Standard in London prices at the top of the market have "stalled" if not fallen a little. Id like to think that with Brexit house prices will come down a bit (if not a lot). Once prices start going down, even a little bit, wont that kill off all the foreign investors? Might it not even lead to a quick fire sell off as people try to minimise losses?

In theory it would only take a little fall to trigger that sell off no?
 
ive got a question about foreign investors...they're buying these flats to make money off them as the value is projected to go up over time...from what I read in the Standard in London prices at the top of the market have "stalled" if not fallen a little. Id like to think that with Brexit house prices will come down a bit (if not a lot). Once prices start going down, even a little bit, wont that kill off all the foreign investors? Might it not even lead to a quick fire sell off as people try to minimise losses?

In theory it would only take a little fall to trigger that sell off no?


Not so much about prices going up now, but more a case of return on investment.. (well always has been)

If you buy (outright) a flat in London for say 400k, and rent it out for £1,500 a month. That's £18,000 return on your 400k per year- roughly 4.5% (bit less after tax/expenses etc) But its a good return for a pretty safe investment. While people are prepared to spend stupid money renting in London, property will always be a good investment. Even if prices start to stall.
 
Last edited:
Not so much about prices going up now, but more a case of return on investment.. (well always has been)

If you buy (outright) a flat in London for say 400k, and rent it out for £1,500 a month. That's £18,000 return on your 400k per year- roughly 4.5% (bit less after tax/expenses etc) But its a good return for a pretty safe investment. While people are prepared to spend stupid money renting in London, property will always be a good investment. Even if prices start to stall.
bollocks. :(

I thought they tended to keep these flats empty rather than rent them.
 
Scum.
Research seen by the Guardian suggests half of offers made by 28 councils in locations in the West Midlands, more than 100 miles from London, are rejected, suggesting that many families are prepared to risk becoming homeless again rather than be uprooted from jobs and family support networks.

......

Cllr Harbi Farah, Brent’s cabinet member for housing, said the council faced an acute shortage of affordable suitable property, a situation exacerbated by government welfare reforms. “While we would prefer to make offers of accommodation within Brent and London and do this in the majority of cases, unfortunately this is just not possible in all cases.”
 
ive got a question about foreign investors...they're buying these flats to make money off them as the value is projected to go up over time...from what I read in the Standard in London prices at the top of the market have "stalled" if not fallen a little. Id like to think that with Brexit house prices will come down a bit (if not a lot). Once prices start going down, even a little bit, wont that kill off all the foreign investors? Might it not even lead to a quick fire sell off as people try to minimise losses?

In theory it would only take a little fall to trigger that sell off no?
One of the issues often raised is that these properties are a means of "parking" dodgy money. So an investor in China say who has such profits which might subsequently be confiscated by the Chinese government as ill gotten gains buys flats in the Elephant and Castle or Oval Quarter say to protect his/her assets from further scrutiny by the government of the People's Republic of China.

As is well know this is not an open option to people governed by HMG here in the UK - you need 3 pieces of ID just to open a simple savings account - and further ID if you want to send money to your family in Somalia or Ecuador on Western Union etc! If you were to buy a property cash you would need to make a declaration as to where the funds came from.
 
^^^^yup - the FE investors will not rent the gaffs out- they value new / unused stuff- they are not looking for a return short term but a way of keeping assets outide of their home jurisdiction. As an anecdote- a friend works is a locksmith for a high clarsss lock company ( if you know LOndon, you will know who i mean )- he he had alot of work in the vauxhall area- in blokcs that are already sold out- whole floors are completley deserted and untouched- no one has ever been on these flats for more than a few minutes, never mind living in them.
 
bollocks. :(

I thought they tended to keep these flats empty rather than rent them.
"They" aren't really a homogenous group. The first (council) flat I lived in in Wapping in the 1980s overlooked the former London Docks which at the time was being redeveloped, much of it with housing. The original plans by the Council for a large amount of social housing had come to nothing and the site had been acquired for development by the LDDC. After the housing was built (with a rather more generous discount scheme for occupants of council housing than anything seen since) the place for a long time was like a ghost town, in part because a significant proportion had been acquired by foreign owned city financial businesses to supply temporary company lets to employees during the City 'boom years'.

A few years later an adjacent riverside building, at what had originally been one of the dock entrances but more recently occupied by a rag merchant, was acquired for development. Much of the money came from Hong Kong - part of the exodus of capital from there associated with the transfer of sovereignty. The frontage of the building was grade 2 listed and it stood in a (rofl) 'conservation area'. The developers thoughtfully stapled a large plastic poster to the wooden doors showing what the new development would look like. By this time the planning powers for the area had reverted to the Council and I still recall a meeting with a senior Council planner in front of the building during which we pointed to the listed frontage and then to the picture which looked nothing like it. He stood there essentially saying "and your point is". Needless to say as work began an 'accident' with a mobile crane damaged the listed part of the frontage and it 'became necessary' to substantially demolish and build something which resembled the picture. Yet as far as I could judge (and I worked across the road from it for many years) this building was fully occupied from day one, unlike some other warehouse and 'warehouse style' riverside developments.

There are lots of reasons for investment in property and lots of ways of exploiting your assets.

And personally I don't see any significant difference in levels of cuntitude between foreign and local capital, although it does of course play well to various forms of chauvinism to pretend otherwise.
 
^^^^yup - the FE investors will not rent the gaffs out- they value new / unused stuff- they are not looking for a return short term but a way of keeping assets outide of their home jurisdiction. As an anecdote- a friend works is a locksmith for a high clarsss lock company ( if you know LOndon, you will know who i mean )- he he had alot of work in the vauxhall area- in blokcs that are already sold out- whole floors are completley deserted and untouched- no one has ever been on these flats for more than a few minutes, never mind living in them.

It's obscene.
 
ospy641l.png
 
How many of the London 'local authorities' have sold off council housing and other council property to private investors and why?
Councils are building flats for sale ,setting up arms length companies to market and sell them. I'd have thought that some of these are sold to foreign investors . The justification is that the profits are spent on social housing.

Some of this housing is built by redeveloping Council Estates.
 
How many of the London 'local authorities' have sold off council housing and other council property to private investors and why?
Depends what's meant by 'sold off to private investors' of course. From one point of view Right to Buy was exactly that. Setting aside the broad political point, once RTB had begun there were lots of 'entrepreneurs' and companies of all sizes offering to front up the initial costs of purchase to council tenants who got a small fee, with a 'private' contract to take over the leasehold, generally during the initial period when sell-ons were supposed to be discouraged by repayment of discount. The Council here did fuck all about this despite knowing perfectly well it was going on. Granted, legal action after it had happened in any particular case would have been expensive and out of proportion to any likely benefit but some additional checks at the start would have cost little. The fact was that here in Tower Hamlets they almost seemed relieved that the amount of housing stock they were fully responsible for was being reduced. (It was - literally - years and an enormous of amount of money spent defending themselves against legal action from leaseholders before they realised that far from saving them money in immediate management costs leasehold tenants were actually high maintenance and expensive 'stakeholders').

The figures I saw last summer were that nationwide a third of former council homes were now being privately rented out (that's an average - in some areas its actually as much as two thirds). Since 1980 I think there have been something like 1.9 million RTB sales in England and 2.5 million across the UK so very roughly that would be getting close to three quarters of a million now being privately rented in England and getting on for a million across the country as a whole. That's been a massive factor in why the private rented sector is now far bigger than the social housing sector.

That's just the outcome of Councils "following orders", before you even get on to the stock transfers to other 'Social Landlords' (some of whom are themselves world class cunts) which Councils were 'encouraged' rather than 'ordered' to undertake; or the next level, Councils setting up housing companies themselves, the boards stuffed full of ex-Council staff and Council members, which then proceed to "develop off" some of the tenants and leaseholders who misguidedly voted for the transfer, or were unlucky enough to be in one of the local 'constituencies' where the ballot was 'managed' to get the 'right' result.

The next set of "orders" for Councils "to follow" are the provisions in Chapter 2 of last years Housing and Planning Act

Vacant higher value local authority housing

Payments to Secretary of State by local housing authorities

(1)The Secretary of State may make a determination requiring a local housing authority in England to make a payment to the Secretary of State in respect of a financial year.

(2)The amount of the payment must represent an estimate of—

(a)the market value of the authority's interest in any higher value housing that is likely to become vacant during the year, less

(b)any costs or other deductions of a kind described in the determination.

Forced sales of 'high value' Council homes to fund RTB in Housing Associations. It still remains to be seen exactly what will be done with this aspect of the now discredited Osborne's 'legacy' but it's now there on the statute book awaiting some 'blue sky thinking'.

All of this is rather more significant IMO to the 'clearances' of social housing than the relatively small number of complete estates or blocks sold off to big developers whether foreign or local, utterly cuntish as that is. The idea that these big schemes represent the 'face' (let alone represent the 'unacceptable face') of a process that is overwhelmingly happening at a far more 'micro' level is quite ridiculous.
 
Last edited:
I am shocked, utterly shocked.

Battersea Power Station will delay building some affordable homes due to "wider economic changes".

The 100 properties, which were due to be finished in the upcoming third phase of building, will now be pushed back to “ease challenges” of delivering the huge development, which includes building a new Tube station nearby.

These affordable homes represent one sixth of the total number it must build in an agreement decided when the development received planning permission, but are just 8pc of the homes that were due to be built in the third phase.
 
The developers ensure that they have the upper hand in any agreement.

If I were council boss: Wider economic challenges ? not my fucking problem , that's the free market you work in, you fucking deal with it - now get them affordable houses built first to ensure you fulfil your commitment or fuck off.
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry DotCommunist the following isn't aimed at you but I'm afraid that article makes me very grumpy.

Built to rehouse servicemen coming back from the war and their families, prefabs were luxury. They had clever designs, all mod cons and the same layout: two bedrooms, a hallway, a living room, a bathroom, interior toilets, constant hot water, and a fitted kitchen—with a fridge, a luxury that only 2 percent of British households had at the time.

There are two sides to the pre-fab story. They weren't constructed by magic social democratic elves but by a range of capitalist businesses, including some traditional house builders, but also a lot which had little or no previous experience. They piled in because there were subsidies on offer and they piled out again when these were withdrawn. There were a lot of different designs, using new and untested techniques and materials, some of which turned out to be unfit for purpose. In some cases the fact that they were intended as 'temporary' had it's effect on standards of construction. And as a consequence while some pre-fabs like those mentioned in the article were well constructed many others were not.

One of my best friends at school lived in a pre-fab at Debden. I can recall the draught from the metal windows in his bedroom, although "looking on the positive side" I imagine this helped reduce the condensation caused by the stand alone heater. What I don't think his family was aware off was the fact that this was one of the designs incorporating a very great deal of asbestos. Something which proved fatal for some of the builders who constructed them, for some of the occupants and for some of the workers who eventually demolished them. Other designs while less hazardous (if you discount the long term effects of damp) suffered failures of the concrete and steel elements.

The extent of the problems became highlighted when Right to Buy was introduced. Only three years later the government were obliged to introduce the Housing Defects Act 1984 to compensate the 30,000 odd home owners who discovered they had purchased defective dwellings. As part of this legislation a couple of dozen specific pre-fab designs were 'designated'. "Looking on the positive side" this preserved some of the communities living in these designs from the corrosive effects of Right to Buy since mortgage lenders promptly blacklisted them. Less attention, needless to say, was focussed on the impact of these defects on the tenants still living in homes which had them. Asbestos in particular remained one of social housings dirty secrets.

At the end of the '80s I was working alongside a guy living in one of Tower Hamlets remaining prefabs. He'd been one of the leaders of the parks department strikers during the 'winter of discontent' and was well up for a fight. But I don't recall that they had to drag him kicking and screaming out of his pre-fab. In fact I think the word he used may have been shithole.

So like I say there were two sides to the pre-fab story. But what really pisses me off about that article is the fucking tone of it.

Prefabs were a national success: residents immediately loved them and strong communities grew out of this successful social housing scheme. (...) these “palaces for the people,”

Pass the fucking sick bag. I imagine if some still functioning slave labour camp was discovered in a forgotten part of Europe there'd be some middle class cunt selling us a narrative of "architectural heritage" and "community spirit".

While we're remembering the post-war "world we have lost" and the communities that have vanished we might remember that they also included communities struggling against bad social housing, against management regimes fully the equal in cuntishness of the private sector and for something that was a fuck sight better than they got.

Grrrr. Lurdan stamps off to take it out on some vegetables.
 
there was (may still be, I doubt it) some prefab builds in a little corner of Duston in Northampton. They always looked very run down but well tended. Clearly what was meant to be a temporary fix for a post-war period should never have lasted so long as for a child of the 80s to remember them, but such is life.
 
there was (may still be, I doubt it) some prefab builds in a little corner of Duston in Northampton. They always looked very run down but well tended. Clearly what was meant to be a temporary fix for a post-war period should never have lasted so long as for a child of the 80s to remember them, but such is life.

There were certainly people still living in prefabs in Oxford up to 2011.

'To meet the housing need after the war pre-fabs, Orlit, Minnox and Howard homes were built, some of which were later replaced by Glen Lyons bungalows.

By 1947 there were more than 2,000 homes grouped near to and around the Oval.The factory-built homes were never expected to last and by 2007 their state of disrepair had reached crisis point.

Mr Turner added: “The pressing need was that there were over 100 Orlit houses that were becoming structurally unsound.

“In some cases doors didn’t fit door frames and they were draughty for people. We weren’t allowed to re-let them on a permanent contract.”'

ROSE HILL: Last family moves into £20m development
 
Why? Councils are dealing with unprecedented budget cuts that have been crammed down their throat by the government. What should they be doing instead?
Why do I think that councils "housing" people in different cities are scum? I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

If councils don't have any alternatives, if this type of thing is being forced* on them by the national government then why are Labour/Greens insisting that it's essential to vote for them and not the Tories?

As for what they should do, well perhaps they could look at historic examples of councils resisting national government attacks.

*Something that I think should be treated skeptically anyway, was it the budget cuts that forced Lewisham to try and pull a dodgy deal with a private company to deprive people of their homes. Was it bollocks.
 
Last edited:
The developers ensure that they have the upper hand in any agreement.

If I were council boss: Wider economic challenges ? not my fucking problem , that's the free market you work in, you fucking deal with it - now get them affordable houses built first to ensure you fulfil your commitment or fuck off.

And then they'd take you too lunch at Henley and talk about the wide range of none exec positions available for a person of your skills, and it'd all be sorted out by the time the fourth bottle of Krug was opened.

Alex
 
My friend recently got rehoused to a prefab in Newcastle - originally built in 1946 but refurbished about 6 or 7 years ago. I think she was really worried when she was first offered it but its actually really nice inside. I suspect they were in a bit of a state before the refurb though.
 
Why would they do that when they could rent them out too ?
Pretty sure a lot of these investment flats bought by foreigners aren't rented out. They are parking their money there to keep it safe. They don't need to rent them out too.
 
Back
Top Bottom