The Slow Fix - IWCA on the rise of UKIP and decline of the left...

[sunnysidedown]

I can think of dozens involving both groups. From union campaigns in workplaces to campaigns around housing in various communities.

How about you give us some concrete examples of what the SWP have won for the working class during it's (almost) 50 years of existence?
Considering the amount of funds and bodies that have passed through that organisation, what is there existing today that we can thank them for?

 

[_angel_]

Oh you're here to troll.

Bye, then. Ern.

 

[Citizen66]

Why the facepalm?

 

[Trealover]

Oh you're here to troll.

Bye, then. Ern.

Doh again!

 

[Citizen66]

Well probably one of his pals then, given angel quickly dived in.

 

[cesare]

Why the facepalm?

Cos you missed the comedy nose and glasses.

 

[Citizen66]

Cos you missed the comedy nose and glasses.

Oh it's humour?

It still confused me for a moment as to who was posting. The brain only scans part of things. It's perfectly normal.

 

[Trealover]

Cos you missed the comedy nose and glasses.

As I've already said, I don't wear 'em and don't need 'em.

 

[belboid]

Because he isn't wheeling out the platitudes like you are.

The mass 'working with migrants' that you speak of isn't really happening.

oh, its you. fuck off then

 

[Trealover]

oh, its you. fuck off then

Ah, the foaming Belboid who never backs up a point.

 

[belboid]

How about you give us some concrete examples of what the SWP have won for the working class during it's (almost) 50 years of existence?
Considering the amount of funds and bodies that have passed through that organisation, what is there existing today that we can thank them for?

ask an swp supporter for such a list, the fact that the swp are shit doesn't make any difference to an discussion of iwca politics

 

[belboid]

Ah, the foaming Belboid who never backs up a point.

says the joker who never has a point

 

[Trealover]

ask an swp supporter for such a list, the fact that the swp are shit doesn't make any difference to an discussion of iwca politics

It especially makes no difference when it's a discussion of imaginary IWCA politics as indulged in by some on this thread.

 

[The39thStep]

How about you give us some concrete examples of what the SWP have won for the working class during it's (almost) 50 years of existence?
Considering the amount of funds and bodies that have passed through that organisation, what is there existing today that we can thank them for?

To be fair to the SWP their members and supporters have often been involved in successful pay strikes, defence of services, individual campaigns and were key to anti fascist activity in the 1970s.

 

[Trealover]

says the joker who never has a point

Go on-give us some more platitudes. And then some criticisms of the supposed dodgy politics of the IWCA conjured out of your own paranoid head.

 

[Trealover]

To be fair to the SWP their members and supporters have often been involved in successful pay strikes, defence of services, individual campaigns and were key to anti fascist activity in the 1970s.

Similar could be said of any and all left groups. The problem is with the left collectively rather than individuals.*


*Except belboid.

 

[The39thStep]

Similar could be said of any and all left groups. The problem is with the left collectively rather than individuals.*


*Except belboid.

But you were asking after the SWP ,in any it's not the case that any and all of left groups have had the same impact.

 

[Trealover]

But you were asking after the SWP ,in any it's not the case that any and all of left groups have had the same impact.

It wasn't me who asked, but you're right. My comment was basically a vehicle for having a dig at belboid.

 

[The39thStep]

It wasn't me who asked, but you're right. My comment was basically a vehicle for having a dig at belboid.

Fair enough

 

[DotCommunist]

Wager away. You're a teacher and still basically a kid as far as I can gather.

wrong on both counts I'm afraid. I've done more shithouse jobs than you've had alternate logins old chap

 

[Trealover]

wrong on both counts I'm afraid. I've done more shithouse jobs than you've had alternate logins old chap

Holiday jobs don't count.

And you'll always be basically a kid.

 

[_angel_]

Holiday jobs don't count.

And you'll always be basically a kid.

I think you mixed dotcommunist with someone else here.

 

[DotCommunist]

Holiday jobs don't count.

And you'll always be basically a kid.

holiday jobs lol. I've been in and out of factories and building sites my whole life ye chump

 

[Trealover]

holiday jobs lol. I've been in and out of factories and building sites my whole life ye chump

I thought you were a thirty year-old teacher. Or summat.

And anyway, you're still wrong.

 

[nino_savatte]

C'mon, cough it up. It's only a brick.

I think you know what I'm saying but it pains you to admit that immigrants are being used as scapegoats by Westminster politicians. If you can't patronise someone, pretend that you don't know what they're talking about. That is the IWCA way (which sort of reminds me of the old RCP modus operandi).

Over to you.

 

[nino_savatte]

'Clearly'? 'Probably'? Make up your mind.

Here, as your obviously struggling, let me spell it out for you.

Mass immigration is a fact of life. And there is nothing anyone (as things stand) can do about even if they wanted to. Given those circumstances to offer political support for a measure specifically designed to drive down wages and conditions is deeply reactionary regardless of the amount of lefty tissue shredding that comes with it.

Bloody immigrants.

 

[TopCat]

Bloody immigrants.

Why the slur? if you think the IWCA attitude is racist or bigoted then why not just say so?

 

[nino_savatte]

Why the slur? if you think the IWCA attitude is racist or bigoted then why not just say so?

No "slur", just sarcasm.

 

[TopCat]

No "slur", just sarcasm.

If you think the IWCA are racist why not just state this?

 

[nino_savatte]

If you think the IWCA are racist why not just state this?

You're repeating yourself. But I also think you're jumping to a conclusion. The IWCA's definition of working class appears to be narrow. That is to say, it is concerned almost entirely with the white working class. In other words, it cannot claim to represent the entire working class anymore than the SWP can make that claim. Then there's its use of language. It tends to chuck the phrase "lumpen proletariat" around without any consideration (see the thread titled "Dealing with the renegades").

But it's really the fact that those people who claim to speak for the IWCA are as sectarian as those they position themselves against. It continues to bang on about immigration without actually challenging some of the widely held assumptions and myths. Then it claims not to be part of the Left, then in another article it will claim that it is on the Left. Some consistency would be nice.

I happen to think the IWCA has done some good work but it also alienates a large number of people - many of them working class. If it was successful in reaching out to Britain's working class, it wouldn't be limited to the Blackbird Leys Estate as it currently is.

One thing that really pisses me off is this smug, superior attitude of the IWCA towards those that don't agree with them on every issue. In that regard, it is little different to the RCP or even the RCG, which initially helped to sponsor it.