Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That's something else coming from you, little Miss Prefect!
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the sir jimmy savile obe thread
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That's something else coming from you, little Miss Prefect!
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I remember there was a teacher at my school who was caught after two female pupils complained he was abusing them- he was in his late 50s/early 60s by this point so I doubt these girls were his first victims. There was also a youngish art teacher who disappeared suddenly after another female pupil said he sent her into the art supply cupboard to get something and went in after her.
True. But still though, if they do get caught lock them up and throw it away. I'm not saying fed them bread and water or subject them to abuse while in prison. No way, the punitive bit of prison should about loss of liberty and nothing else. But if there's ever a case to be made for prison being solely about retribution and taking the offender out of mainstream society then I reckon paedos are that case - AFAIC there's nothing worse you can do to someone than nonce them up. Fuck them, once you've done something like that you've crossed a line - I was going to say all bets are off but they're not - Even a nonce is still a person and deserves to be treated as such, but they need to know a line has been crossed. And the best way to do that AFAIC is making them do a long bit of time.
Rural
Active Member
I think children r naturally curious & chn experimenting with other chn is usually OK, I mean I experimented in the sense of playing doctors & nurses with other same-age chn. But then u get 10 year olds raping 6 year olds, so its important to realise that children "experimenting" can b just as abusive as an adult molesting a child. I don't really know where I'm going with this but I guess its all just such a grey area to me anyway & just as I think I've come to a conclusion, I realise that its all a lot more complicated than that.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
In light of recent revelations and an opening up of historical abuse cases, do you think more victims will be able to feel empowered to speak out, seek help, and feel that the justice system will be fair to them?
I'd like to see longer sentences....much longer .
What post am I avoiding putting up?
I'd like to see longer sentences....much longer .
What post am I avoiding putting up?
innit?
ime it's easy for some people to brush abuse by minors off as 'experimentation' - i'd guess that might be because it's fairly grim to acknowlege that it actually happens.
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
When I'm talking about sexual experimentation, I don't mean the sort of "learning curve" children-to-children activities between kids, I mean adults who feel jaded by normal sexual experience, and decide to "experiment". usually this involves stuff like swinging, or light BDSM, but sometimes takes a less legal turn, and yes, we're talking couples as well as singles indulging in child sex abuse here.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
*sigh* the post(s) where you say that existentialist and me have been bullying/hassling you.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You used to get picked on by prefects at your school, didn't you?
We didn't have them. If we did, accepting the job would have put you on the endangered species list at my school!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
We had a teacher at my secondary school who had an (earned) reputation as being "all hands" with good-looking male pupils, and who ran a "boys' club" out of his large Victorian house, where he was said to get up to no good. Several pupils reported him for groping while I was there, but nothing was ever done, as these reports were seen as malicious. Revenge of a sort was had, though, when every pupil (give or take a handful) took a vow to give the teacher's car a single kick in passing. That poor old Morris Minor got pretty much smashed to fuck!
The teacher in question (who was still working as a teacher in an all-boys school) was eventually arrested for serial sexual assault on underage boys in the late '90s, and is still doing time. He'd been in teaching since 1970.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well of course it'll have no affect on those who don't go through the system but it'll have an affect on the recidivism of those that do.
1st offence - 10 years; 2nd offence - life.
It's quite easy to point out the people who were most likely picked on at school. They go on to be bullies themselves and continue the cycle of abuse.You used to get picked on by prefects at your school, didn't you?
The protection and anonymity of online forums can be a breeding ground for them... it seems.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
When I'm talking about sexual experimentation, I don't mean the sort of "learning curve" children-to-children activities between kids, I mean adults who feel jaded by normal sexual experience, and decide to "experiment". usually this involves stuff like swinging, or light BDSM, but sometimes takes a less legal turn, and yes, we're talking couples as well as singles indulging in child sex abuse here.
E2A: As for child-to-child sexual abuse, it's a very shady area at the moment, criminal justice-wise. There's little precedent to inform decision-making re: sentencing, and little legislation because it's seen as a vanishingly-tiny issue by the legislators (and also not voteworthy).
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
I've been reading a fair bit about abuse in foster homes and it is something that needs mentioning. We had a case of this a few years ago... .where a young teenager was abusing a foster child in his family. It was a dreadful situation as the child had been "rescued" from familial abuse only to be brought into another abusive situation. The child was completely let down by the system ... what upset a lot of us who worked on this was that the teenager was afforded more counselling from child services than the child. I can readily understand the need for him to be counselled as it was viewed as "high priority" in order to try to prevent him from abusing again...yet the child was left with a six month wait for counselling and had to deal with the trauma of being abused in what was meant to be a safe place.
Rural
Active Member
I guess children can appear to other children as life-sized threatening creatures, whereas adults find it harder to see the threat in chn.but some of the worst abuse I've heard of has been done child - child. Don't think they always grew up in adult abusers but how do u treat/punish small (to adults) chn who abuse others? I know this is unpleasant to think of but I really think this is very common too these days (maybe always was)
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Recidivism is lower than for most other serious offences, partly due to extensive treatment programmes for the worst offenders, and bearing in mind that released sex offenders are more closely monitored than any other type of released offender, including murderers freed on licence.
Your proposals are good for media headlines, and MPs would mostly love them, but are they a good use of legislative time, just to allow MPs to make a gesture that will benefit hardly anyone except the MPs and the "prison industrial complex"? They certainly don't serve the actual victims of those abusers, only purported future victims.
Rural
Active Member
Exactly and its not a small issue just cos some would rather not deal with it
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Thanks for that cod-psychology!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well quite, but unfortunately stuff has to be noteworthy and headlineworthy in order to garner support from the Westminster Clown School, and child-to-child abuse isn't.
It's also, from an academic perspective, almost impossible to research meaningfully, because ethical considerations mean that direct investigation of victims is a no-no (for perfectly good reasons). This means that academic research is limited to anonymised case files of working child psychologists and psychiatrists that deal with abuse, and the conclusions that can be drawn from these individual cases.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There was a prominent case in Essex back in the noughties that went similarly, except it wasn't one child abused by the foster-child, it was 3. Fortunately, the local authority did its' duty by the abused children, but were still castigated for not informing the foster-parents that their ward was in care because he was both a victim and perpetrator of familial abuse.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I guess children can appear to other children as life-sized threatening creatures, whereas adults find it harder to see the threat in chn.but some of the worst abuse I've heard of has been done child - child. Don't think they always grew up in adult abusers but how do u treat/punish small (to adults) chn who abuse others? I know this is unpleasant to think of but I really think this is very common too these days (maybe always was)
This kind of gets us into a whole new field, i.e. at what age is a child criminally-responsible for their actions?
As for how common abuse (physical or sexual) between children is, IMO it's always been common enough that a majority of people know/knew a kid at school who did nasty shit, but not common enough to be "very common" or ubiquitous.
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
*sigh* the post(s) where you say that existentialist and me have been bullying/hassling you.[
/QUOTE]
Well you have...and I'm not the only one who sees it...as is obvious from the posts of at least four others here.
Keep up this nonsense though..why dont you.
By the way I thought you'd be first up to pm me for the "Freedom" relationship and sexuality programme I was offering you .. as you seemed very interested.
Seems that the whole argument you prolonged about wanting the information and being genuinely interested was just you going on a one-up-manship mission....again.
So yeah....I'll stick to my assessment of the posts you directed at me.
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Rural
Active Member
U know u get the Bulger case & like the Saville case, the media jumps on these to turn the abusers into monsters while ignoring how very widespread abuse is. It annoys & upsets me that the narrative never changes & no1 seems to address the underlying issues. I think many ppl have prob done things they r ashamed of & tackling abuse of power in urself/ourselves has to be done to move forward. Tho obv this is uncomfortable & if ppl don't want to do it, nothing changes
that's what happened at this school in rochdale
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...cial-school-were-at-risk-of-aids-1600318.html
The boys got abused by staff, then went on to abuse each other. And then went on to rent-boy it in the town bogs. Vulnerable kids turned into perverts - It hardly bears thinking about.
The bulger case was just kids who went too far though. Not really comparable with Savile IMO. You have got a point about everyone having done things they're ashamed of though - I remember trying to derail a train when I was little. And beating up a kid and pissing on him - If my mate had've said "Shall we set him on fire?" Instead of "Shall we piss on him?" I'd have probably gone along with it. To me that's what sums up the Bulger case - Two essentially normal lads taking a road that most of us have done but for them it ending up with them doing a deeply fucked up thing. Which to me is a million miles from Savile.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I'd agree with that. The Bulger case was a one-off, Savile was a systematic predator who committed crimes over decades and who only stopped because he died.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Venables and Thompson weren't normal kids. They had family lives where they'd witnessed and been subjected to violence over a long period of time, some of it extreme. Not violence in terms of the smackings that most kids in the 80s were subjected to. Their homelives were chaotic and were a fundamental reason for their offending. The case of the two brothers in Doncaster which was a hair's breadth from becoming a similar murder bore the same hallmarks. They were from extreme environments. This is not a guarantee of extreme behaviour but makes it much more likely. Take 100 kids and put them in Thompson and Venable's situations and let's say 20 of them go onto do something very violent. Take the same hundred kids and put them in a loving home and you change that number to ,say, 2.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
You're quoting has got a bit mangled so I'm not entirely sure what your post was, although it seemed to be you claiming I am bullying you because other people says so. Have you reported my bullying posts to the mods?
Don't you think it's odd to claim that I'm bullying you and then say 'oh but you didn't PM me about the Freedom programme'?
Don't you think it's odd to claim that I'm bullying you and then say 'oh but you didn't PM me about the Freedom programme'?
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