the sir jimmy savile obe thread

[toggle]

One of the things we are going to have to do if people like Savile are to be prevented from harming children is to make sure that we - and children - are aware of the risks before they arise.

In too many of the stories, one of the narratives was firstly disbelief by those being abused at what was being done, and secondly complete ignorance as to what to do about it.

I have read the rest of your post, but i wanted to add that attacking myths about who 'prpoer perpetrators' and 'proper victims' are. how victims dress, act, feel, behave, how they respond to trauma, this is all a huge part of creating a culture where someone dosen't have to fit a sterotype of middle class respectable white female to have a chance of being believed.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Most people are the sum of complex and contradictory drives, even a muppet like you, Frances.

Like I said, that was last night - It's been dealt with now - Why rake over the coals?

 

[ViolentPanda]

TBH I genuinely do despise counsellors and social workers and all those parasitical wankers. I honest to god hate them. If their budgets were spent directly on the people who needed a bit of help, we wouldn't need this self appointed parasite class. And if one of them has the lack of self awareness to let themself get fat then really. Fuck them. Crossways. Til it hurts.

Yes, because obesity is all a matter of choice, isn't it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Like I said, that was last night - It's been dealt with now - Why rake over the coals?

Because when you're being a cunt, you need reminding not to be a cunt.

You cunt.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Yes, because obesity is all a matter of choice, isn't it?

Jesus H Christ - For the last fuckin time, what the fuck are you milking this bullshit for? The thread's moved on & you're dragging it back. I was a prick and I apologised for being a prick. Can you not just leave it alone now or what?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Because it's about looking up women's skirts. Men don't wear skirts, it's another way to objectify and belittle women.

Some men wear skirts, tbf ( Shirl 's other half, for example).

 

[Frances Lengel]

Because when you're being a cunt, you need reminding not to be a cunt.

You cunt.

Suck ya mam fatboy.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

then perhaps you could show me where I have directly attributed this phrase to her.

Perhaps you could show me where I said you had?

Rubbish. My original post contested that your claim that SHOUTING VERY LOUDLY or running away were valid strategies for abuse prevention. I'm pretty sure I remember you saying something about hitting people, too.

You seem to be suggesting they're not valid strategies for abuse prevention, that doing nothing is the best approach... so long as you pay a counsellor to fix you after the event.

You also said...

The only way that abuse is going to be prevented is by continually sending the message to everyone that it's OK to disclose abuse

Really? The only way to prevent abuse is to tell someone after you've been abused? That might prevent you from being abused by the same person a second time but but it's not going to prevent the initial abuse, is it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Jesus H Christ - For the last fuckin time, what the fuck are you milking this bullshit for? The thread's moved on & you're dragging it back. I was a prick and I apologised for being a prick. Can you not just leave it alone now or what?

You weren't a prick, you were a thoroughgoing cunt, and as for your apology, well, we know from experience that you'll repeat the same "mistakes" some time in the near future, and then apologise again, don't we?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Suck ya mam fatboy.

Oh Frances, you're such a card, projecting your own actions onto others in an attempt to not feel Oedipal guilt!

 

[Frances Lengel]

You weren't a prick, you were a thoroughgoing cunt, and as for your apology, well, we know from experience that you'll repeat the same "mistakes" some time in the near future, and then apologise again, don't we?

And poking a fucker with sticks and resurrecting yesterday's bullshit isn't being a thoroughgoing cunt? You could've said your bit last night, just leave it now honestly let the thread move on. I've said I was out of line and yeah, I'll probably be out of line again - What's it to you though, piotious wankstain?

 

[Frances Lengel]

Oh Frances, you're such a card, projecting your own actions onto others in an attempt to not feel Oedipal guilt!

No shame in my game. Mind you my mam was fit in her day.

 

[ViolentPanda]

a diversion

its sorta spooky reading the DM article on the auction of saviles stuff from 2012

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-personal-treasures-fetch-small-fortune.html

"
Two original signed sketches of Sir Jimmy, one smoking a cigar, by Rolf Harris are included in the auction with both estimated at £400 to £600. Rolf captured Sir Jimmy’s likeness in minutes when the pair met over a cup of tea in a Bristol TV studio’s canteen"

Reading that, the first thing that came to mind was "is 'captured Sir Jimmy's likeness' a euphemism?" The second was "is 'met over a cup of tea' a euphemism?".

 

[Citizen66]

Anyway, Jimmy Savile. ..

 

[ViolentPanda]

You should probably just accept that your posts will be misrepresented, twisted and turned against you by the clique squad... Resistance is futile.

Yeah, 'cos it's only this imaginary "clique squad" that twists posts etc, isn't it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Anyway, Jimmy Savile. ..

Apparently he was some sort of sexual degenerate.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

1. you're attempting to distract rather than answer again. really, if you are incapable of remembering what you wrote a few days ago there's always the search function.


2. You've already been told that existentialist is far from the only person who interpreted your posts as extrapolating that most victims fight from your response to one event. your attempt to isolate him as the cause of your problem behavior won't work any more than a similar trick worked in your attempts to accuse EG of harassing you.

3. someone who actually had experience working around DV would not have promoted this myth, would have recognized that 'proper victim' is a common generic term used in discussion. to the point I can find it in the titles of academic papers, on blogs, on advice sites for dv support groups.

4. someone who worked with proper abuse support orgs would recognise that extrapolating a generic victim response is a fundamentally flawed approach, one only taken by people who have occasional contact with victims who usually do a lot of damage through being judgemental.

and you're done? because you're now backed into a hole that you've created through your own bullshit and claims of a background that your behavior, language and knowledge show that you either haven't expereinced, or haven't learnt a fucking thing from.




if she can't handle having what she says torn apart then she could always try posting up less clueless crap

she could then try not lying to cover for the fact that she understands far less than she claims.

then she could stop throwing about accusations of bullying and trying to turn discussion into one that is all about her as 'victim'

I understand enough to know that my personal reaction to abuse was mine and there was nothing wrong with what I did.

If I generalised then I apologise.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Anyway, Jimmy Savile. ..

Beat the system.

I'm not that into punk music but whenever Savile's name gets mentioned, I always start singing this song in my head. But with Jimmy Savile instead of Jimmy Boyle. And let's have it right, if it was a tale of two Jimmy's, Savo beat the system comprehensively. Far moreso than Boylo - Sav never did bird for one thing.

 

[ViolentPanda]

One of the things we are going to have to do if people like Savile are to be prevented from harming children is to make sure that we - and children - are aware of the risks before they arise.

In too many of the stories, one of the narratives was firstly disbelief by those being abused at what was being done, and secondly complete ignorance as to what to do about it.

And both the disbelief and the ignorance fed into making the victims feel unsupported, disbelieved and "dirty".
Of course, it's not even like child abuse doesn't have history in the UK. W.T. Stead made his reputation (some would say badly) on exposing how easy it was in Victorian Britain to buy a young girl into slavery.
It's always seemed to me that apart from anything else, it's historically been cconvenient to view sexual abuse of children through the lens of "it can't be happening here". It allows the authorities and the establishment to treat it (however pernicious it actually is) as an isolated perversion of a tiny minority.

But the other narrative, which seems to me equally as important, is that of the individuals who knew something was wrong, and who either did not say something, or tried to say something, and were silenced or ignored, because it didn't fit with the facts as perceived by the person hearing the reports.

Not merely the facts.
One issue that we need to take a bit more seriously, IMO, is the cultural milieu in which the judge (i.e. the person reading the reports, not a member of the judiciary!) was raised in. This can have a noticable effect on how they judge the whole idea of child sex abuse. I think that Dawkins' "mild paedophilia" comment illustrates such an effect well.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

yes.

once or twic might be accidental.

this is every post.

Is it?
Can you post all those quotes please.

 

[ibilly99]

Reading that, the first thing that came to mind was "is 'captured Sir Jimmy's likeness' a euphemism?" The second was "is 'met over a cup of tea' a euphemism?".

The Rolf Harris sketch of Savile will have dropped in value on two counts ....

Surprised Jake and Dinos Chapman haven't hoovered up some Harris drawings to make some appropriate cutting edge artistic amendments and then re-show them as contemporary re-imaginings acutely capturing the zeitgeist.

Working title the Defacement of Childhood.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think ppl have to realise how very common abuse is & rather than think it is perpetuated by monsters (tho I totally understand that feeling of hated, disgust & wanting to other abusers) accept that ppl who abuse can b kind, loving, popular, have kids & families who love them & yet still commit horrendous crimes. We prob all know abusers, some of them r good at hiding in plain view. It's just recognising that*average, normal, friendly, likable* ppl do abuse & not to feel disbelief if someone discloses that this has happened to them because the perpetrator seems unlikely.

To some extent, we also need to accept that (contrary to the way child sexual abuse is often presented in the media) there is a gradient to the severity of abuse (although not such a gradient to the scale of effect of abuse on the victim), just as there is a gradient to offending behaviour per se with regard to abuse, and that a minority of child sexual abuse offences are quantifiable as "one-off" events, indicating that some abuse offences may be the result (grotesque as the idea is) of "sexual experimentation" rather than paedophilia-proper.

 

[ViolentPanda]

27 assaults on 6 boys....apparently he was given responsibility for the boarders. He had an open door policy and liked the pupils to see him as a "father figure" whom they could talk to........
... abuser in plain sight....

He gets 30 years but will serve only 6?
Wtf?

We have spoken a lot about prevention and counselling here.
It might be worthwhile having a look at the length of sentences served by convicted paedophiles.

Unfortunately, longer sentences for child sex abusers don't tend to translate into fewer cases of abuse, as convictionfor it s only skim about 40% of reported crimes, and extimates of the volume of unreported child sex abuse crimes ranges from a conservative 50% (i.e. twice as many crimes occurring as are currently reported), to 90%. In other words, when you're unlikely to get caught anyway, longer sentences don't have a deterrent effect.
We also have the workaday issue of having effective sex-offender treatment programmes within the Prison Service, but neither the staff nor the funds to roll out the "best practice" programmes across the prison network, so some offenders are released having completed only the most basic treatment programme.

 

[equationgirl]

Give it a rest, ffs. You're hassling her now.

Get over yourself.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not sure about that though. A defence lawyer needs to be robust in their treatment of witnesses. In the end, she chose to top herself and that was down to her and no one else. Changing court procedures on the basis of something like that isn't really the way to go IMO. By all means protect witnesses by means of screens or video links and such, but everyone deserves a fair trial and to be defended properly.

There's specific legislation covering the treatment of vulnerable and under-age witnesses, but unfortunately in specific cases the implementation is pretty much in the gift of the judge, so some judges let defence lawyers go in much harder than others, and prosecutors don't like to make waves by mentioning to the judge that they're not doing their job properly, for obvious reasons.
What we really need is a system whereby a neutral court official (the Clerk of the Court, perhaps) can rule specific questions and tactics out of order as they occur, but that'll never happen, because of the criminal justice system being such a network of interests.

 

[DotCommunist]

The problem with aggressive pissed posting is that when you wake up with a hangover and it dawns on you that perhaps you put too much top spin on some of your posts the previous evening, you can't face logging on again until you've had a hair of the dog. By the time you've got the confidence to face the reaction, there's a fair old chance you'll end up in aggressive pissed mode again. Or that's how the pattern works with me.

this is the truest post ever

 

[ViolentPanda]

It'll stop them if you never let them out.

No it won't, because for all the "hardcore paedos" that get caught and incarcerated, there'll still be the opportunists out there, as well as the groomers and the "kindly uncle" types who've never been reported, so don't turn up on anyone's radar as an offender.

 

[equationgirl]

Some men wear skirts, tbf ( Shirl 's other half, for example).

This is true and I apologise for generalising.

 

[equationgirl]

Is it?
Can you post all those quotes please.

You've got a nerve, asking people to posts up things when you repeatedly avoid doing so when asked.

 

[tufty79]

this is the truest post ever

take out the hangover & it also applies to booze-free posting while in a state of constant fury. sort of.

/queen of shrieking anger 2013