the sir jimmy savile obe thread
- Thread starter Pickman's model
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equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
So I'm guessing you're not going to quote the posts where you claim existentialist and I were bullying/hassling you?Thanks.... I'm giving it the bullet.
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wobbly
then perhaps you could show me where I have directly attributed this phrase to her.
she is again, avoiding discussing why someone who claims to have a background in DV support seemingly has so little awareness of that particular myth that she is claiming fighting back is normal behavior for a victim.
maybe you could show me where i have attributed this as a quote from you.
little hint - you won't. you haven't even got the quote marks in the right place. and I haven't attributed it to anyone.
but now i'm thinking about how common that phrase is in discussion of DV that I'm wondering how someone with your long expereince could have missed noticing it, or some variation on it.
but i'm sure you will find some bullshit way to not answer that. that's today's tactic, right?
bubblesmcgrath
Well-Known Member
You imply that I in some way was party to this view that 'proper victims' fight back. As I recall existentialist posted about this in response to my original post and insisted that his interpretation of my original post was this very thing. You are now using the same language and by implication assuming yet again that my original post reflected this view.
I've already said I'm done on this thread.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
What the actual fuck?
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
How does anyone know what any of us look like? U cant tell from an avi.[/QUOTE]
I have probably let on that I'm carrying a bit of extra.
It demonstrates, more than anything, how wide of the mark Frances is about what counsellors are and do, though. So he's either clueless, or feeling particularly vicious.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Nobody has said you did - she's referring to the myth. It's not ALL about you.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Rubbish. My original post contested that your claim that SHOUTING VERY LOUDLY or running away were valid strategies for abuse prevention. I'm pretty sure I remember you saying something about hitting people, too.
If you need post numbers and links, I'll find them when I'm not on my phone.
Rural
Active Member
QUOTE="existentialist, post: 13264955, member: 46721"]How does anyone know what any of us look like? U cant tell from an avi.[/QUOTE]
I have probably let on that I'm carrying a bit of extra.
It demonstrates, more than anything, how wide of the mark Frances is about what counsellors are and do, though. So he's either clueless, or feeling particularly vicious.[/QUOTE]
Doesnt matter at all what anyone looks like, just seemed a strange thing to say as I thought we were anon on here. One thing I've liked here is how we're mostly accepted/challenged for arguments/debate style. I've not seen anyone referring to appearance b4
I have probably let on that I'm carrying a bit of extra.
It demonstrates, more than anything, how wide of the mark Frances is about what counsellors are and do, though. So he's either clueless, or feeling particularly vicious.[/QUOTE]
Doesnt matter at all what anyone looks like, just seemed a strange thing to say as I thought we were anon on here. One thing I've liked here is how we're mostly accepted/challenged for arguments/debate style. I've not seen anyone referring to appearance b4
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
It does happen. And it's nasty when it does. For all that I've defended Frances after his bans before, I find myself thinking right now that Urban would be improved for the lack of his kind of loose cannon viciousness.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
True. Perhaps it's only that I haven't been on the receiving end of Frances' wysiwyg approach before, but right now it doesn't feel preferable to anything.
No, I'm sure it doesn't. I think it goes beyond what should be accepted here.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the post you quote has "proper victims" as the quote, not "proper victims fight back". have you considered remedial reading classes?
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think it's more likely to be wishful misinterpretation, TBH. Going by her form on this thread, she tends to be very selective in her recollection/reposting of what she and other people write.
Or am I being too charitable?
Spelt what correctly?
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
....
PursuedByBears
Go stick your head in a pig
Thread is dead, move along now.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
One of the things we are going to have to do if people like Savile are to be prevented from harming children is to make sure that we - and children - are aware of the risks before they arise.Well this has been many many pages of interesting stuff about Savile
In too many of the stories, one of the narratives was firstly disbelief by those being abused at what was being done, and secondly complete ignorance as to what to do about it.
But the other narrative, which seems to me equally as important, is that of the individuals who knew something was wrong, and who either did not say something, or tried to say something, and were silenced or ignored, because it didn't fit with the facts as perceived by the person hearing the reports.
And make no mistake that this is unusual. If you look through the history of inquiries into pretty much every serial sex abuser, there are stories - usually many stories - of people who had their suspicions. Sometimes they did report them, sometimes they didn't. And when they reported them, all too often the reports were ignored. Here's just one example, of a teacher who abused children at a school for twenty years:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3853953.stm
This is the timeline of the abuses perpetrated by John Owen, the disclosures, and his eventual suicide that resulted in the Clwych Inquiry into how he was able to abuse children in a school and elsewhere for all that time. The inquiry finished in 2003, and it is clear that, in regard to the difficulty people had in getting the disclosures taken seriously, the problem was very similar to the Savile one.
Yet, over a decade later, we were still facing the same problems. And I am not at all convinced that, if another cunning, charismatic and prolific abuser is operating today (and, trust me, they are), it will really be that much easier for those around them who suspect all is not well to blow the whistle and be heard. Or at least easier enough to enable disclosures to be made and acted upon.
Eventually, after 20 years, the police, having previously investigated and decided there was nothing to worry about, finally reinvestigated. Owen killed himself the day before he was due in court to face charges relating to those years of abuse. Can we be sure someone isn't out there, hidden in plain view, building another 20 year career of abuse reasonably secure in the knowledge that nobody will dare risk blowing the whistle on them?
Sure, there is a case for last-ditch protection, and it makes sense for children to at least know what is OK and what isn't, but the child protection focus should really be on ensuring that the situation never gets to that point in the first place.
And the best defence for children against everything from bullying to abuse is actually self-esteem and the knowledge that they are listened to. Abusers are good at picking out likely victims. They generally aren't going to pick on forthright, well-connected and resourced kids when they can abuse isolated, insecure children who are far more likely to respond to the abuser's overtures and far less likely to be able to tell anyone else what is happening.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Give it a rest, ffs. You're hassling her now.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
She's avoiding getting ripped to pieces by you lot.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
In your shoes, I'd be wondering why I felt so strongly about a group of people whose only significant factor, to you, is what they do for a living.
It's worth remembering that - unlike a lot of the mental health profession - counsellors are one of the few whom you only go to because you want to. A counsellor won't see someone who doesn't want to be there. So they present no threat to you. Counsellors don't diagnose or section, either.
When you get right down to it, the core of what counsellors do is listening. Just that.
So your hatred of a profession whose primary task is to listen to people who want to be there seems a little extravagant.
And it is interesting to note, to drag this back on-topic, that one of the recommendations of the Clwych Report I mentioned earlier was that schools should have counsellors present. Why? To listen. Because the inquiry came to the conclusion that there was nobody independent enough of the system who was listening to the kids who were saying what was going on.
I imagine that your feelings about the counselling profession come from some kind of negative encounter you've had with them in the past (although I am appalled at how often people are told they're receiving "counselling" and it turns out that whoever they're getting it from, it's not a counsellor, so don't be too sure you're hating the right profession), but if you stop and think slightly rationally for a moment, you may well come to the realisation that abusing a person you've never met on an internet forum because of the way you feel about his chosen profession, on the basis of some experience you've had with (quite possibly not even) another member of the same profession isn't really on.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Come off it, fella. Suggesting a poster be banned????
Frances was out of order there but he's still one of the best and most honest posters here.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I'm not going that far. I am just describing how I feel after waking up to his, frankly deeply unpleasant, verbal assault.
He can be. And I've held that line for a long time. Perhaps it's just because it's me the loose cannon is pointing at, but right now if the bastard disappeared in a puff of smoke, never to return, I wouldn't be breaking my heart over it. Maybe that'll change in a bit.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I reckon it was out of character and that Frances Lengel was pissed or otherwise enhanced. Wouldn't surprise me if you got an apology today.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I will look forward to, and appreciate, that.
The problem with aggressive pissed posting is that when you wake up with a hangover and it dawns on you that perhaps you put too much top spin on some of your posts the previous evening, you can't face logging on again until you've had a hair of the dog. By the time you've got the confidence to face the reaction, there's a fair old chance you'll end up in aggressive pissed mode again. Or that's how the pattern works with me.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
One could always not post horrible things when you're drunk. You still have some control over what you say!
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Urban has 13,244,717 posts. How many do you think would be left if this monstrous principle were adopted?
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