The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

[krtek a houby]

They may pick up more seats in by-elections of course becoming the "protest vote" like the lib dems used to be pre-2010.

Still befuddled by this, is their showing a protest vote or not?

 

[RD2003]

Still befuddled by this, is their showing a protest vote or not?

It's a protest vote with potential to be turned into a mass movement of the radical right embedded in, mostly working class, communities.

Europe-wide, the left is being outflanked by the racist right.

 

[RD2003]

This, from redsquirrel, just above in the thread, is worth repeating. With added emphasis by me.


'...it would be incredibly foolish not to recognise the ground for the hard right is very fertile.

The last 25 years have seem the hard right grow in electoral power from the BNP, UKIP, Brexit Party and now Reform, each doing better than their predecessor.
The nature of these parties means that there is always the possibility they implode, fall out, break up, but that ground remains and, in the absence of any class politics, it is expanding.'


Regardless of what happens with this latest far-right formation, it is the fertile ground for their like which is concerning. And it isn't going away, because this Labour government isn't sufficiently going to address it. And that leaves aside factors beyond the control of any government.

 

[Ax^]

of course the tory party was not a right wing radical party over the last tenure of the last 14 years

and bred the very power reform have just brought to the table at this election

 

[RD2003]

‘We’re coming for Labour’: Reform’s small seat count conceals size of its threat

Nigel Farage’s party won more than 4m votes and came second in 103 seats, of which 93 were won by Labour

www.theguardian.com

It's the Guardian, but some worthwhile points. A lot of people have had enough, and only the radical right is in any real position to capitalise on it.


'Drilling into the constituency results reveals the scale of the potential threat Reform could pose in future. The party came second in no fewer than 103 seats, of which 93 were claimed by Labour.'
Though the shocking initial exit poll prediction of 13 seats for the populist hard-right party did not, in the end, come to pass, its final tally of five seats still represents a big advance. Founded only in 2018 as the Brexit party, it had never previously won a Westminster seat at any election.


And if that headline figure remains small, it conceals a much more significant breadth of support in a wide range of seats, Conservative and Labour, right across the country. Nationally, Reform won more than 4m votes, over 600,000 more than the Liberal Democrats who returned 71 MPs thanks in part to their sophisticated ground campaign and targeted tactical voting. The Green party won four parliamentary seats on under 2m votes, less than half the tally of Reform.

 

[redsquirrel]

of course the tory party was not a right wing radical party over the last tenure of the last 14 years

and bred the very power reform have just brought to the table at this election

How were the governments over the past 14 years part of the 'radical right'? Five of those years (perhaps the most damaging five) were the coalition government. Clegg, Cameron and Osbourne may be many things but they are not the populist hard right (neither for that matter is May, Sunak or even Johnson)

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

How do we see Reform growing from here? Other than the protest aspect of their vote. What can they offer people. The being tough on immigration thing only works if they don't hold power. But what do they offer beyond this to achieve that greater power by influence if not seats?


I don't think Reform in it's current guise are the threat from the right. But they pave a way for something more popularist, red brown in nature as Labour or any centralist govt fail to deal with Capitlism, fall out from climate change. Maybe they'll pivot but it won't be Farage. He'll be done by 2030 or overshaddowed by someone who can actually capture the inevitable frustration and anger of younger people in particular. Whilst centralists panic and flap around.

Just brain dumping but feel free to shoot some info at me or something.

Something about them holding power in several seats occurred to me just now, relating to constituency casework. Bearing in mind that people can only go to their own MP, what about e.g. people whose asylum claims are being processed too slowly or are having to appeal due to administrative failures or erroneous decision-making, or perhaps people who are experiencing problems with their settled status or whatever post-Brexit? Or what about the victims of the Windrush Scandal, many of whom still haven't been given the promised compensation?

Who do those constituents go to, when they would previously have gone to their MP for help, if their MP is now a Reform Party MP?

Will those Reform Party MPs and their caseworkers actively assist all their constituents who need help? Or will they file some requests for help straight in the bin, fail to take up cases and do anything to help those constituents?

Or even if they don't discriminate in that way, how will their constituents feel about going along to their MP's surgery for help, how likely are they to go and ask for help from their Reform Party MP?

 

[mojo pixy]

The Left must bear much of the blame for this, it's about time we got out of our echo chambers and took the argument to the streets.

The question is, who? And how? Because whenever someone (anyone!) gains some profile on a leftish platform they just get snark from everyone left of themselves that they somehow aren't pure enough, and snark from everyone right of themselves that they're simply not realistic. Class has been reduced to an identity, and the ethnic majority in the uk have been made to feel they should pipe down and make space for literally any minority so that perhaps understandably many run sobbing into the arms of the far right.

We need a movement, and not another bowel one.

And I'm done for today.

 

[Smangus]

 

[MickiQ]

View attachment 432435

Looks like a used car salesman convention

 

[DaveCinzano]

The Chip-On-The-Shoulder-endales

 

[Idris2002]

A patsy distracts security and the attendant media with a real but harmless milkshake, whilst two clandestine teams in different vantage points take him out with silenced rifles loaded with frozen ice cream bullets

In Minecraft.

 

[Karl Masks]

View attachment 432435

Someone should tell Lee Anderson to never smile.

 

[Lotte]

The one Reform vote that I don't get is in Liverpool, where they came second in some wards. So you hate the Tories...but you're voting for a party who are led by Nigel Farage and are the Tories on steroids?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Someone should tell Lee Anderson to never smile.

TBF that's something that is likely to be fairly low down the long, long list of things people should tell him to do

 

[bluescreen]

The one Reform vote that I don't get is in Liverpool, where they came second in some wards. So you hate the Tories...but you're voting for a party who are led by Nigel Farage and are the Tories on steroids?

This is the thing I don't get either. Maybe people just don't know. I know it's rude to suggest that people vote without full information but people vote for weird reasons.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

The one Reform vote that I don't get is in Liverpool, where they came second in some wards. So you hate the Tories...but you're voting for a party who are led by Nigel Farage and are the Tories on steroids?

pretty distant second where they did, though, and found one where they finished third behind the greens who were in distant second.

suppose there must be some right wing types in liverpool. on a fairly small sample, i can think of one right-wing sexist, racist twat from liverpool that i worked with (in london) a long time ago...

 

[Lotte]

I know the hatred of the Tories comes from the Thatcher era and is more to do with economic policies than social liberalism, but Farage isn't that much different from Thatch in terms of economic policy and I doubt he'd be any good for Liverpool. Dunno if he has any takes on Hillsborough.

I've met some Scousers with dodgy beliefs. Antisemitic conspiracy theorist types. Although one of them loved Jeremy Corbyn so fuck knows who he voted for this time.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I know it's rude to suggest that people vote without full information but people vote for weird reasons.

I don't think it's rude to suggest that people vote without full information, sadly IME there's plenty that do just that.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I know the hatred of the Tories comes from the Thatcher era and is more to do with economic policies than social liberalism, but Farage isn't that much different from Thatch in terms of economic policy and I doubt he'd be any good for Liverpool. Dunno if he has any takes on Hillsborough.

I've met some Scousers with dodgy beliefs. Antisemitic conspiracy theorist types. Although one of them loved Jeremy Corbyn so fuck knows who he voted for this time.

Anti-Tory feeling comes from the history and the fact they're the party of rich Southern posh people as much as from policy doesn't it. I think it's pretty well documented now that UKIP etc have drawn plenty of votes from previous Labour voters and it's the absence of that that helps them there (even with all the 'Farage is a banker' stuff). There's no particular reason Liverpool should be immune to that that I can see.

 

[tim]

Someone should tell Lee Anderson to never smile.

He's nolonger the only Fasc in the Village.

 

[Karl Masks]

TBF that's something that is likely to be fairly low down the long, long list of things people should tell him to do

We can couch between bouts of telling him to fuck off

 

[Kaka Tim]

It's a protest vote with potential to be turned into a mass movement of the radical right embedded in, mostly working class, communities.

Europe-wide, the left is being outflanked by the racist right.

But not in france

 

[RD2003]

But not in france

True, and a surprise to everyone. But I don't think their ten million voters are going to be peeled away easily.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

But not in france

Whilst the left did amazingly well, the issue is what happens next. Some form of lash up between the centrists and elements on the left, the sidelining of other sections of the left and a watering down of the demands Melenchon and the left campaigned on (all of which seem likely if the political commentariate are to be believed) only strengthens the FN in the longer term. Remember their target is the Presidency in 3 years and that they are starting with a bloc of 10 millions supporters.

 

[skyscraper101]

I like to think that the appeal of Reform are still very much dependent upon Farage and without him, they've lost their main draw. Sort of like Griffin in the BNP, or Johnson in the Tories. Thick people in England seem to be easily swayed by these personalities and people like Farage clean up with their pint drinking man of the people shit. I can't imagine Tice would've achieved this on his own.

 

[moochedit]

I like to think that the appeal of Reform are still very much dependent upon Farage and without him, they've lost their main draw.

yep UKIP still going but irelevent now without Farage. Probably have less members than the SWP : D

 

[emanymton]

I like to think that the appeal of Reform are still very much dependent upon Farage and without him, they've lost their main draw. Sort of like Griffin in the BNP, or Johnson in the Tories. Thick people in England seem to be easily swayed by these personalities and people like Farage clean up with their pint drinking man of the people shit. I can't imagine Tice would've achieved this on his own.

I just don't get this. Maybe I just can't see past the politics of the situation. But I just can't see the appeal of the likes of Johnson or Farage.

I don't think Griffin was ever all that popular with the general population.

 

[skyscraper101]

I just don't get this. Maybe I just can't see past the politics of the situation. But I just can't see the appeal of the likes of Johnson or Farage.

I don't think Griffin was ever all that popular with the general population.

They don't appeal to me either but they clearly speak to the same sort of psyche that galvanizes the levels of support of Trump, Le Pen, Bolsonaro or Milei enjoy.

The problem is that so many people are switched off by politics, they don't realize or care how much of a shit show these people can cause until it's too late. And when the moderate centre/centre left present a comparatively unthrilling alternative, it just exacerbates their appeal. Just look at the all the political horse trading France had to pull this weekend just to keep Le Pen out of power.

Farage has tapped into this big time but fortunately, for now, the Labour 'landslide' was more about kicking out the Tories than any particular enthusiasm for Starmer. That, and first past the post.

 

[emanymton]

They don't appeal to me either but they clearly speak to the same sort of psyche that galvanizes the levels of support of Trump, Le Pen, Bolsonaro or Milei enjoy.

The problem is that so many people are switched off by politics, they don't realize or care how much of a shit show these people can cause until it's too late. And when the moderate centre/centre left present a comparatively unthrilling alternative, it just exacerbates their appeal. Just look at the all the political horse trading France had to pull this weekend just to keep Le Pen out of power.

Farage has tapped into this big time but fortunately, for now, the Labour 'landslide' was more about kicking out the Tories than any particular enthusiasm for Starmer. That, and first past the post.

Back in his Ukip days wasn't there some polling that Farage was less popular than Ukip in general?