As a neutral I would be inclined to say that what type of 'attention' is as important as the amount...
The most working-class anarchist group is...
- Thread starter ernestolynch
- Start date
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Surely its not about 'declaring your anarchism' to people in communities - as some kind of ideal type to which they must aspire. Its actually about getting involved and trying to put ideas into practice - prefigurative politcs.LLETSA said:
In fact its not even about necessarily trying to get people involved in struggles working in ways you would like. Its the idea that involvement in working class struggle tends to (or at least has the potential to) develop libertarian and anti-capitalist thinking. Sometimes it doesn't happen - and sometimes the benefits only take effect much later. However thats so much better than trying to impose a model of struggle on people.
LLETSA said:
I never even heard of it till chuck mentioned it and i have being active for years. The point is its not a competition that my groups bigger more well known than your group.Anarchist groups differ as we do net get involved with elections so exposure can be different.
I am involved with consistent progressive anarchist politics on my patch and the IWCA had vnever being herd of. Admit it LLETSA in my area we are involved consistent community projects or will just revert to substitute penis measuring.
Are you to small minded to apologise and bite the big one.
charlie mowbray
The Enforcer
You're right, Herbie, LLETSA comes over as a patronising prat looking down his nose at us. What a contrast to some other IWCA posters
LLETSA said:
I went down mi local the other night and it was IWCA this and LLETSA that. Get real
We are doing stuff but we dont shout about anarchism in peoples face all the time.
Just admit it that we are doing things.
charlie mowbray said:
Most of the other guys are sound and i have much respect for them the scary thing is LLETSA style reminds me off my uncle (SHUDDERS)
Who was a my way or the high way self taught socialist who would mock any thing and never admit when hes wrong.
charlie mowbray
The Enforcer
And yes my original comment is relevant. If your original criticism can be aopplied to British anarchism, it can just as easily be applied to the IWCA. How many people in Britain have ever heard of it. As I said, precious few outside 1 or 2 localities.
Apologise? Just call me Ken....
What are you on about laddie?
Where do I say it's a competition? What I said was that the public at large has never heard of anarchism, and that anarchists would seem to prefer it to stay that way. Which would seem to present a few problems for the spreading of anarchist ideas, would it not?
Herbert Read said:
What are you on about laddie?
Where do I say it's a competition? What I said was that the public at large has never heard of anarchism, and that anarchists would seem to prefer it to stay that way. Which would seem to present a few problems for the spreading of anarchist ideas, would it not?
LLETSA said:
So you resort to school yard tactics again instead of swallowing your inflated ego and saying that you are wrong about anarchists in leeds.
Class War during the 1980's and around the time of the Poll Tax recieved far more attention than the IWCA - most people over 30 in the UK have heard of Class War, very very few have ever heard of IWCA.
General Ludd said:
Bollocks.
God you're full of shit.
charlie mowbray
The Enforcer
Wrong. I want to spread anarchism on a mass level, and every other anarchist I know does too. And less of the patronising "laddie"- don't use it with me or I might be tempted to call you "sonny".
charlie mowbray said:
I'm not 'an IWCA poster' - I'm not even a member (no branch where I live), although I have been sending them regular donations for some time.
In what way does asking perfectly valid questions constitute 'looking down my nose at you?'
LLETSA said:
You generalised like a fool. I presented to you waht i was doing in my local area, which is all i can do.
Then you start prattling on about the IWCA, which the public at large do not know about either.
You made broad assumptions that anarchists do nothing in their communities or with working class people, then when provided with the evidence on my patch, stated rambling about people in pubs not nowing owt.
Point being you have being consistently proved wrong.
charlie mowbray
The Enforcer
Your general tone, and your crass distortions of what people think and want.
Cause your 'perfectly valid questions' are about as patronising as they come.
charlie mowbray said:
Makes me laugh laddie sounds like a right C*%t
The apolitical anarchos strike back!
Jesus Christ, talk about missing the point!
What are you all so defensive about? Try answering the questions instead of retreating to the bunkers.
The fascists over on RA were better at arguing their corner than a lot of the anarchists and Trots on this board.
Could it be a matter of confidence. Why does yours come over as so fragile?
General Ludd said:
Jesus Christ, talk about missing the point!
What are you all so defensive about? Try answering the questions instead of retreating to the bunkers.
The fascists over on RA were better at arguing their corner than a lot of the anarchists and Trots on this board.
Could it be a matter of confidence. Why does yours come over as so fragile?
LLETSA said:
Still dodging your disgrace by rambling on at ludd, go on admit we do things up on my patch, swallow your ego
LLETSA said:
Sad lonely man who cant admit when he wrong!
General Ludd said:
You must mix with a vastly different kind of over-thirty than I do.
The hard fact is that even the tiny numbers who have heard of CW have only a negative impression of it (not entirely the fault of CW I admit but contributed to by its fundamental misunderstanding of what the average working class person is like.)
And when did this turn into an IWCA v anarchism issue? I never even mentioned the IWCA in my original post. But as you're determined to keep on about them then it's worth repeating that should the IWCA expand into more places then more people will begin to hear of it - for the precise reason that it publicises itself and what it does.
General Ludd said:
Jesus, your powers of political persuasion are overwhelming!
Why don't you answer the points raised? I wasn't even being hostile.
I dread to think how you must approach the average member of the public if this is how you respond to even the mildest criticism on a forum like this.
LLETSA said:
You generalised that anarchists do nothing are invisible and want to remain that way. I have pointed out to you my activities and those of my comrades in leeds you have ignored it and persisted in pushing arse fluid out of your mouth
My problem with your posts on the last page or so is that you would have attacked if anarchists did the opposite- you would have said "shouty anarchists getting involved in community politics purely to recruit to their groups" or something similar.LLETSA said:
It rather cheapens your point when it is obvious that the attacks come first, the evidence for them second. You don't actually care, and to be honest you behave more like a Lenninist than you know (as does your "IWCA or nothing" comrade Joe Reilly).
LLETSA said:
I bet the public love you flat cap string vest and i know best crap
Sounds like a fair enough point. I've lived in seval UK cities over the past 10 years - not Leeds, I grant you - and I've never been aware of anarchist groups unless I hung around lefty bookshops or joined campaigns and found a few working "deep cover" like Herbert.
This isn't a criticism of anarchs (and I'm not sure why everyone is so defensive about what Lletsa says, it's a statement of fact). If you go to Scotland everyone's heard of the SSP. In Oxford they all know about the IWCA. And the SWP, for better or worse, do have a profile. But there is not one anarchist group (again, Leeds may be an exception) in any part of the country I have lived in is on the working class's radar. Why is this?
This isn't a criticism of anarchs (and I'm not sure why everyone is so defensive about what Lletsa says, it's a statement of fact). If you go to Scotland everyone's heard of the SSP. In Oxford they all know about the IWCA. And the SWP, for better or worse, do have a profile. But there is not one anarchist group (again, Leeds may be an exception) in any part of the country I have lived in is on the working class's radar. Why is this?
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