The most working-class anarchist group is...

[kropotkin]

Nice to see the strawmen being rolled out again on this thread (and Chuck- good job with the website that doesn't even mention anarchism- beyond "the councillor called it...anarchic...").

I hope that the IWCA types are sound in the knowledge that they have seen of the unwashed anarchist children, with their superior understanding and argument techniques.

Well done

Well done.

And to think that anyone with an actual understanding of our poitics would notice very little difference- certainly in comparison with the other tendencies on here.

 

[newbie]

But organising to meet your needs is normal surely? Why does it become neccesarily abnormal when its done collectively?

Is it? I don't know. My dad used to complain about how hard it was to interest people in the tenants association; my union branch has the same difficulty. In bothncases the few who do organise collectively are far outweighed by the many who could but don't.

 

[butchersapron]

Is it? I don't know. My dad used to complain about how hard it was to interest people in the tenants association; my union branch has the same difficulty. In bothncases the few who do organise collectively are far outweighed by the many who could but don't.

Well, if you look at formally constituted groups or initiatives this is certainly the case - but there are other less formal ways of doing things - lots of anti-mobile phone mast intitiatives are on an ad-hoc basis and part of looser community based networks - that don't need you to identify in the way that formal 'politics' often does. And maybe there is something about the way that TAs and Unions are organised and operate that discourages personal involvement?

 

[charlie mowbray]

It's difficult not to construe it in that way.

So of course you do.

 

[charlie mowbray]

Nice to see the strawmen being rolled out again on this thread (and Chuck- good job with the website that doesn't even mention anarchism- beyond "the councillor called it...anarchic...").

I hope that the IWCA types are sound in the knowledge that they have seen of the unwashed anarchist children, with their superior understanding and argument techniques.

Well done

Well done.

And to think that anyone with an actual understanding of our poitics would notice very little difference- certainly in comparison with the other tendencies on here.

Yep, you said it. Anyway back to my minging squat to smear rancid fat on my dreads (kept in the bath which is never used for washing)

 

[newbie]

And maybe there is something about the way that TAs and Unions are organised and operate that discourages personal involvement?

possibly there is, although they cover issues where the collective interest can be clearly identified. Same with parents groups in schools or health service user groups. Nimby groupings like those opposing a mobile phone mast or a rehab clinic might be demonstrating self-organisation but only very few of the people involved will also be involved with left or anarchist politics. The rest are normal.

 

[swarthy thug]

Yep, you said it. Anyway back to my minging squat to smear rancid fat on my dreads (kept in the bath which is never used for washing)

Mouth zipped from now on

 

[butchersapron]

possibly there is, although they cover issues where the collective interest can be clearly identified. Same with parents groups in schools or health service user groups. Nimby groupings like those opposing a mobile phone mast or a rehab clinic might be demonstrating self-organisation but only very few of the people involved will also be involved with left or anarchist politics. The rest are normal.

That's precisely my point though - people organising around their own needs are normal, the oddities are those who try and impose their own parties/tendencies/ideologies on the struggle for those needs. Whereas you seem to be saying the first lot are abnormal as well.

 

[our-streets]

but only very few of the people involved will also be involved with left or anarchist politics. The rest are normal.

i think thats the point.

 

[kropotkin]

Thomas, I see you as an ally, and Lletsa for that matter.
You come from a part of the political spectrum that prioritises class, and goes from there. I see us fundamentally differing on electoralism- which I see as a dead end and a waste of time and money- but little else (certainly less than the differences I see between my anarchist politics and those held by others who refer to themselves as anarchists).

Perhaps if instead of a knee-jerk dismissal of people whose politics- going on the charicatures presented here- you don't actually understand (and Lletsa, having admitted to not having spoken to another human being about anarchism for 15 years, perhaps you aren't exactly qualified to tell us what we think), you might have a little more restrained approach until you can separate out those you see as allies from those you see as harmful.

 

[newbie]

That's precisely my point though - people organising around their own needs are normal, the oddities are those who try and impose their own parties/tendencies/ideologies on the struggle for those needs. Whereas you seem to be saying the first lot are abnormal as well.

We agree then, which is nice. My original point came from whether 'normal' people use a 'social centre', which is a term used for an explicit intervention in 'the struggle' made by those with a developed ideological viewpoint. There are plenty of other centres for socialising in, but that's not what's commonly understood by the term as used in this context. A 'social centre' has clear left/anarchist involvement: normal people don't go there.

 

[butchersapron]

We agree then, which is nice. My original point came from whether 'normal' people use a 'social centre', which is a term used for an explicit intervention in 'the struggle' made by those with a developed ideological viewpoint. There are plenty of other centres for socialising in, but that's not what's commonly understood by the term as used in this context. A 'social centre' has clear left/anarchist involvement: normal people don't go there.

I've never been in one anyway

But there's clearly a difference between simply having what you term "a developed ideological viewpoint" and seeking to [impose that viewpoint and the orgnasational forms you think follow form this on the struggles of others - which is typical left-wing poltical behaviour and has been for the last 100 years or so.

 

[swarthy thug]

Thomas, I see you as an ally, and Lletsa for that matter.
You come from a part of the political spectrum that prioritises class, and goes from there. I see us fundamentally differing on electoralism- which I see as a dead end and a waste of time and money- but little else (certainly less than the differences I see between my anarchist politics and those held by others who refer to themselves as anarchists).

Perhaps if instead of a knee-jerk dismissal of people whose politics- going on the charicatures presented here- you don't actually understand (and Lletsa, having admitted to not having spoken to another human being about anarchism for 15 years, perhaps you aren't exactly qualified to tell us what we think), you might have a little more restrained approach until you can separate out those you see as allies from those you see as harmful.

For me the like lletsa my only experience of anarchism is very spare,the odd time ive come across any action is when a pop in now and agian to the 1 and 12 in bradford and may be have a shufty of the flyers.But ive never seen any action from where i was brought up and the places ive lived.Besides the odd local counciller and chanceing mp visting when theres elections going on,the only action organizational happerning is residents groups by commited local people who only aim in life is to improve the lot of its fellow community,i could not do that im to misanthropic(which has dogged me from year dot) .Prehaps those residents groups are a form of @ who knows.But the actions on hear and what ive read seem to me un real in my world.

 

[General Ludd]

But ive never seen any action from where i was brought up and the places ive lived.

Sadly I've never seen any action by any socialist/IWCA-esq/anarchist group in the places I grew up (well, place, Herefordshire).

 

[Thumper Browne]

I thought the first excange was you calling me a cunt.Not nice that,not for shyboys like me.

Nah, it was you dressing me up in a Palestinian scarf

 

[swarthy thug]

Nah, it was you dressing me up in a Palestinian scarf

Bet you have one thou along with purple specked docs and those army tops todd carty wore in the 70s

 

[swarthy thug]

Sadly I've never seen any action by any socialist/IWCA-esq/anarchist group in the places I grew up (well, place, Herefordshire).

such is life.

 

[Thumper Browne]

Are you for real? This is exactly the sort of juvenile embarrassing post that I was referring to . Unless I have misunderstood ;apparantly you and your mate are supposedly up for ruck with the police but manage to control this natural urge in order to work within communities but good anarchists can do both.However the real reason for these rucks is the violence of the state. ?

You sound like you're the sort of person who thinks dropping litter is a revolutionary act.

Yes I was being a bit of a cock but there is no way I am ever gonna publicly condem a confrontation with the state or the pigs or anyone who represents it, supports it or gives it implicit support. Why should I? The state and its machinery I reject almost entirely and I will always try to show the confrontation in its true light.

I also acknowledge that much of my attitude is based in adrenaline junkiedom and I do find better outlets for it. I've never really been involved in a proper riot

 

[Thumper Browne]

Bet you have one thou along with purple specked docs and those army tops todd carty wore in the 70s

Listen mush, I don't have one of those rags, no docs niether or army tops, I do not dress the way you suggest, fuck your stereotypes, dick.

 

[swarthy thug]

Listen mush, I don't have one of those rags, no docs niether or army tops, I do not dress the way you suggest, fuck your stereotypes, dick.

Dick ,cunt i bet you call me a nicompoop

next.

hey up for a ruck

 

[Thumper Browne]

Dick ,cunt i bet you call me a nicompoop next.

hey up for a ruck

You really wanna fight, don't you?

 

[our-streets]

willy waving!

 

[swarthy thug]

You really wanna fight, don't you?

No not really,losing your control , you need help with that temper lad.

 

[Thumper Browne]

No not really,losing your control , you need help with that temper lad.

I haven't lost my temper. As our streets pointed out, the robust language and personal insults are the norm here. You'll get used to it. That said I should be used to the rampant stereotyping that goes on too, in that regard your attitude is nothing new and I shall rise above it.

Good day to you sir.

 

[swarthy thug]

I haven't lost my temper. As our streets pointed out, the robust language and personal insults are the norm here. You'll get used to it. That said I should be used to the rampant stereotyping that goes on too, in that regard your attitude is nothing new and I shall rise above it.

Good day to you sir.

Its a triumph of the human spirit thumper ,i should get jill dando to give you a heart of gold,youngs boys with no arms .....pah thumpers the real ruddy bloody brave one.

 

[Thumper Browne]

*This message is hidden because swarthy thug is on your ignore list.*

That button really works, wow! never thought I'd use it.

 

[swarthy thug]

*This message is hidden because swarthy thug is on your ignore list.*

That button really works, wow! never thought I'd use it.

To quote ian bannen(playing a child rapeist being roughed up by a cop) in the film the offence

"nothing i have done can be bad as the thoughts in your mind,i wouldt have your mind"

 

[montevideo]

Those who contansly brag about how hard there are,are useally quivering wrecks when a real mash up happens.

i agree 100%

 

[Herbert Read]

Those who quote film usually have a limited life style

 

[Chuck Wilson]

they are also issuing badges that say "yuppie invasion tosser" How do you reckon that would be construed by "you average punter"?

And guess what, i looked over their website. Not one mention of the word anarchism/anarchy.

And guess what if you actually read the fucking website (instead of investing in the time-honoured knee jerk bullshit reaction) it comes across as a teenage iwca with added humour.

Maybe it's just me but i credit "your average punter" with a bit more intelligence.

Guess what? I read the website before you and it doesn't come across a a teenage iwca with added humour , it comes across as " Its that time of year again, when your Council goes on a wild vindictive anti-social rampage against graffiti artists, flyposters, skateboarders and those evil parasites - the homeless." which is its banner headline on all the pages.

Yes, they are issuing badges that say "yuppie invasion tosser" but the issue in Manchester is not that the working class are being moved out (there is no working class to move out in the first place cos noone lived there) but that huge estates remain unregenerated outside the city centre, with the exception of Hulme .

Hosting the Commonwealth Games, applying to be the city of culture, building a 24 hour city centre culture, hosting the Labour party conference has been a pleasent diversion from the reality of these estates many of them riddled with crime ,asb, drug dealing with few transport links, loads of failing schools, and some of the worst health rates in England.

Instead these people ( and if they are not some member of the extended anarchist family what are they?) focus on car pollution and the right to skateboard and graffiti.

Teenage? yes. At the cutting point of working class action? No.