the long-awaited 'why the telegraph is going downhill' thread

[taffboy gwyrdd]

nino_savatte : Today, Tim 'I was a teenage Marxist' Stanley defends the indefensible.....But all of this is purely academic if liberals won't even allow us to have a conversation about immigration."/quote]

Astonishing isn't it? Year after year they roll this claim out, yet immigration is one of the most discussed topics there is. Who "won't allow" the conversation? What are the sanctions? Do plod get summonsed?

I don't watch it, but apparently Question Time gave 40 minutes over to the topic, and that's not even liberal - it's a full tilt Marxist cult under the beady eye of Comrade Patten

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Brute Anderson ran a piece in the twatograph either today or yesterday, I won't link. It was an homage to none other than IBS. It was truly fucking desperate, as deluded and fawning as a 70s Pravda piece about comrades visiting tractor factories, and riddled with inaccuracies.

 

[brogdale]

"The Nadine Dorries I'm a Celebrity affair once again makes the Tories look like the party of sleaze"

 

[nino_savatte]

nino_savatte : Today, Tim 'I was a teenage Marxist' Stanley defends the indefensible.....But all of this is purely academic if liberals won't even allow us to have a conversation about immigration."/quote]

Astonishing isn't it? Year after year they roll this claim out, yet immigration is one of the most discussed topics there is. Who "won't allow" the conversation? What are the sanctions? Do plod get summonsed?

I don't watch it, but apparently Question Time gave 40 minutes over to the topic, and that's not even liberal - it's a full tilt Marxist cult under the beady eye of Comrade Patten

It's all about playing the victim.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Yep, martyr complex.

 

[nino_savatte]

Helmet head tells us - without a trace of irony - that David Dimbleby is a "complete publicity whore".

The real story behind David Dimbleby's tattoo is that the man is a complete publicity whore
I'll tell you what it means. It means that Dimbleby is a cheap media tart who will literally do anything to promote his new television series. This is a publicity stunt, pure and simple. Britain and the Sea, Dimbleby's new BBC1 series about our maritime history, debuts this Sunday and having a small tattoo of a scorpion on his right shoulder is a way of promoting it. A brilliant way, incidentally, on account of the fact that not a single journalist or broadcaster has been able to see it for what it is. Instead, they've all decided to take Dimbleby's explanation at face value. "You are only old once," he says. "I have always wanted a tattoo. I thought I might as well have it done now. It’s a dream come true for me."
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100245489/the-real-story-behind-david-dimblebys-tattoo-is-that-the-man-is-a-complete-publicity-whore/

Takes one to know one, Tobes.

 

[brogdale]

Helmet head tells us - without a trace of irony - that David Dimbleby is a "complete publicity whore".


Takes one to know one, Tobes.

http://twitpic.com/4qbth

 

[nino_savatte]

http://twitpic.com/4qbth

Did he fall off his bike?

 

[Gingerman]

Could never accuse Tobes of being "a complete publicity whore"
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2013/...out-himself-in-third-person/toby-young-naked/ (NSFW)...or anywhere else for that matter.....

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Oborne did a piece about the Tory party failing in the north of England. Can't say I read it, but someone posted some of the comments underneath it, which say a lot. Be in no doubt what side such specimens would have chosen in the 1930s


If the North want to be socialists, let them Home Rule for Sussex

If you want conservative you'd better vote UKIP. Cameron's Tories = Liberal

First, convince us all that we will get a fair In/Out referendum next, Convince us all that the Tory leadership will campaign unequivocally for an Out vote. - Simple

Labour hate the native white English. The North of England is either anti-English or deluded

All the top Labour people are reverse coconuts

One wonders how many genuine English people live there.

The franchise should be restricted. Personal liberty should be guaranteed for everyone, but in terms of choosing a government only the educated should be able to vote.

 

[butchersapron]

Oborne did a piece about the Tory party failing in the north of England. Can't say I read it, but someone posted some of the comments underneath it, which say a lot. Be in no doubt what side such specimens would have chosen in the 1930s


If the North want to be socialists, let them Home Rule for Sussex

If you want conservative you'd better vote UKIP. Cameron's Tories = Liberal

First, convince us all that we will get a fair In/Out referendum next, Convince us all that the Tory leadership will campaign unequivocally for an Out vote. - Simple

Labour hate the native white English. The North of England is either anti-English or deluded

All the top Labour people are reverse coconuts

One wonders how many genuine English people live there.

The franchise should be restricted. Personal liberty should be guaranteed for everyone, but in terms of choosing a government only the educated should be able to vote.

Where?

 

[butchersapron]

All the top Labour people are reverse coconuts

What does this mean?

 

[Favelado]

What does this mean?

You already know, right? Sorry, I'm fairly new at this game.

 

[butchersapron]

You already know, right? Sorry, I'm fairly new at this game.

It's an odd thing to say. I saw it above
All the top Labour people are reverse coconuts

 

[butchersapron]

You already know, right? Sorry, I'm fairly new at this game.

Don't. Try.

 

[Favelado]

Drink plenty of water.

 

[stavros]

"The Nadine Dorries I'm a Celebrity affair once again makes the Tories look like the party of sleaze"

I wasn't aware any one party had exclusivity to that particular attribute.

 

[brogdale]

I wasn't aware any one party had exclusivity to that particular attribute.

Quite so......but......

Spoiler

 

[nino_savatte]

Hysteria and hyperbole from the Master of Bullshit, Dan Hannan.

There are qualified Romanians and Bulgarians whom I’d be happy to see here. Both their governments fret about the brain drain. The question is over whether we have the right to decide who comes. And, almost as critically, the right to decide who can claim our range of in-work and out-of-work benefits. Britain is unusual in the EU in having entitlements which are not connected to whether you have paid anything into the system. That can’t last.

You can’t have universal entitlements and open borders at the same time. Indeed, it’s becoming increasingly clear that, in the long run, you can’t have either.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...ting-racist-should-hang-their-heads-in-shame/

All this from a man whose political allegiances lead him to conclude that planning is a bad thing.

 

[nino_savatte]

Today, Brendan O'Neill reveals himself as a closet homophobe.

Gay now means rubbish. Get over it
This is borne out by the fact that the rising use of the word “gay” to mean rubbish has coincided with increased levels of tolerance towards homosexuals among young people. When I was at school, we never used the word gay to mean rubbish, and yet there was a lot of anti-gay sentiment, reflecting broader anti-gay outlooks in politics and society. Today, the opposite is the case – kids are forever using the word gay to mean rubbish, yet real, genuinely prejudiced anti-gay sentiment is on the wane, both in schools and in society. A whopping 82 per cent of 18- to 34-year-olds, some of whom will have used the word gay to mean naff (and perhaps still do), are in favour of gay marriage. Clearly the new use of the word gay does not speak to a prejudiced outlook – it simply speaks to the fact that words change meaning, and there’s not much we can do about it.

There’s a debate to be had over why the word gay specifically came to mean rubbish. My penny’s worth, as I’ve argued before, is that it’s because what is now presented to us as “gay culture” is often quite knowingly naff, camp, shallow stuff, leading young people who have been exposed to such culture through pop music and TV to associate “gay” with “rubbish”. But that’s a debate for another time. For now, we have to face up this fact: Gay now means rubbish. Get over it.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100246515/gay-now-means-rubbish-get-over-it/

 

[nino_savatte]

Today is the 50th anniversary of JFK's assassination but only one thing seems to be exercising the mind of Dan Hannan.

Talking of dystopian novels, there is one more anniversary today. 22 November is the date on which John Galt, the libertarian hero of Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged, seizes the airwaves and reveals himself to the nation. Of all the books I’ve discussed, Atlas Shrugged is the most predictive. Replace “railroad companies” with “banks” and you have an almost perfect description of what has happened these past five years. And look at this passage: for uncanny prophecy, it’s hard to beat.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...ldous-huxley-and-ayn-rand-todays-quite-a-day/

Ayn Rand, the prophet. Margaret Thatcher, the 'saviour'. Fuck's sake.

 

[nino_savatte]

Today, Daniel Hannan claims that "we" (that is to say, the US and UK) "invented" freedom. He's plugging his new book and if it's anything like his previous oeuvres then it's bound to be full of a fancy (but meaningless) phrases and ropey ideas.

Why did it happen? Why, after thousands of years of oligarchy and tyranny, did a system evolve that lifted the individual above the tribe rather than the reverse? How did that system see off rival models that elevated collective endeavour, martial glory, faith and sacrifice over liberty and property? How did the world come to speak our language?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100247847/how-we-invented-freedom-and-why-it-matters/

I don't like having the word "freedom" mediated to me by some posh Peruvian ex-pat, whose idea of freedom is based on his privileged position. This "freedom" that he talks about was not extended to the working classes, slaves and women.

the war against slavery, the American Revolution, the Glorious Revolution, the English Civil War, Magna Carta – to its origins in the folkright of Anglo-Saxon common law.

"The war against slavery" sounds mighty grand and effective but the southern US states practised Jim Crow laws. The "Glorious Revolution" was a palace coup and the "English Civil War" was hijacked by Cromwell, whose inept son (whom most people ignore) couldn't hold on to power and ceded it back to the monarchy. And the Magna Carta? Freedom for the barons.

 

[Quartz]

Today, Daniel Hannan claims that "we" (that is to say, the US and UK) "invented" freedom. He's plugging his new book and if it's anything like his previous oeuvres then it's bound to be full of a fancy (but meaningless) phrases and ropey ideas.

So you're dismissing it without having read it?

 

[butchersapron]

So you're dismissing it without having read it?

It's a book by Daniel Hannan. So yes. You're such a poltroon.

 

[nino_savatte]

So you're dismissing it without having read it?

I've read the article. How about you? Why do you think it's important to read his book? Will it reveal something new about the nature of freedom or do you think Hannan has more right to mediate the word than either me or you? He has no more right to pontificate on the word's meaning than anyone else and that's the problem with the right and their 'libertarian' chums generally: they believe they know more about 'freedom' than anyone else.

You didn't bother to read my points either. Well done.

 

[Quartz]

I've read the article. How about you? Why do you think it's important to read his book? Will it reveal something new about the nature of freedom or do you think Hannan has more right to mediate the word than either me or you?

He has just as much right. And if he wishes to put it in print, that's his perogative. I'm not going to comment on his book without having read it.

You didn't bother to read my points either. Well done.

Actually, I did. Why waste space arguing with what is correct?

 

[butchersapron]

No such word as perogative.

 

[Favelado]

Why don't you just let him live? He don't need permission, makes his own decisions.......

 

[nino_savatte]

He has just as much right. And if he wishes to put it in print, that's his perogative. I'm not going to comment on his book without having read it.

The word is "prerogative". Hannan has plenty of previous and reading his book is unlikely to make me change my mind. He makes these claims all the time in his various blogs and articles.

Actually, I did. Why waste space arguing with what is correct?

No, you failed to address any of them. More importantly Hannan (and his fellow travellers) have constructed their idea of "freedom" in opposition to the surmised unfreedoms of communism and socialism. Their views of socialism, especially, are conflated with the authoritarianism of the USSR and similar states. Yet there is little acknowledgement on his or their part that their so-called "free" countries limit the freedoms of certain social formations through the use of economic power. Dubai? Chile? Just two examples right there.

You're a fan of Hannan, aren't you?

 

[Quartz]

The word is "prerogative". Hannan has plenty of previous and reading his book is unlikely to make me change my mind.

Perhaps reading it might at least make you better informed.

No, you failed to address any of them.

They didn't need addressing.

You're a fan of Hannan, aren't you?

I've liked a couple of his speeches in the EU parliament. But with regard to his writing, I like to read multiple viewpoints to better learn and understand them. I've never seen the point in wearing blinkers or speaking in an echo gallery. I do have a copy of his book, 'The Plan'. It's relegated to bath-time reading - that is, it doesn't matter if I nod off and it falls in.