The Green Party has some serious questions to answer

[co-op]

Jesus, I hadn't realised just how depraved the abuse was. Any party that even debates whether they want to be associated with that is fucked, yeah there are some questions of how knowledgeable etc Aimee was but some times you have to draw the line for the sake of self-preservation.

The extent of knowledge isn't an issue; AC and DC were engaged in framing GP policy on issues that have an absolutely clear overlap with safeguarding and the rights of women and children. In that role they aggressively pursued a campaign to completely silence any dissenting voices, not just through things like terfblocker etc but by smearing anyone who dared to question any part of their agenda as a 'bigot' or a 'transphobe', ie by intimidation.

In itself this behaviour is abusive.

In itself this, in a safeguarding context, this should be flagged as a risk behaviour.

It is also typical behaviour of a predatory sexual criminal - and in this case it turned out to be exactly that.

For AC to now flounce off accusing everyone else of 'transphobia' is also typical.

No regret, no reflection, no attempt to understand, just accuse, accuse, accuse. "I haven't done anything wrong, it's everyone else" - this is what abusers say.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Lucas has been 'terfblocked' because she has agreed to talk to the Woman's Place people next week.

This horrible affair might possibly mark a bit of a watershed moment in the terf wars. It is possibly the clearest demonstration of how the debate has to change, from the trans activists' side. They cannot just scream 'bigot' at anyone who does not agree with them that trans women are women, while shoving them (and anyone who talks to them) on 'ignore'. They need to acknowledge that there are other ways of looking at issues of sex and gender identity from theirs, that there are other perfectly valid definitions and points of view. They need to find a way to start respecting certain positions that they currently label 'terf'.

 

[Teaboy]

Lucas has been 'terfblocked' because she has agreed to talk to the Woman's Place people next week.

This horrible affair might possibly mark a bit of a watershed moment in the terf wars. It is possibly the clearest demonstration of how the debate has to change, from the trans activists' side. They cannot just scream 'bigot' at anyone who does not agree with them that trans women are women, while shoving them (and anyone who talks to them) on 'ignore'. They need to acknowledge that there are other ways of looking at issues of sex and gender identity from theirs, that there are other perfectly valid definitions and points of view. They need to find a way to start respecting certain positions that they currently label 'terf'.

I wouldn't hold your breath. The whole thing seems utterly polarised.

 

[co-op]

Lucas has been 'terfblocked' because she has agreed to talk to the Woman's Place people next week.

This horrible affair might possibly mark a bit of a watershed moment in the terf wars. It is possibly the clearest demonstration of how the debate has to change, from the trans activists' side. They cannot just scream 'bigot' at anyone who does not agree with them that trans women are women, while shoving them (and anyone who talks to them) on 'ignore'. They need to acknowledge that there are other ways of looking at issues of sex and gender identity from theirs, that there are other perfectly valid definitions and points of view. They need to find a way to start respecting certain positions that they currently label 'terf'.

I tried arguing this position for years (literally) - from a personal place of genuine sympathy with trans people. But I have ended up a full-on terf because the reactions I got were so aggressive, dishonest and weird. I now think it is literally impossible for the hardline TG position to actually be engaged; it now seems to me fundamentally abusive, misogynistic and closed to any opinion not 100% aligned to itself. It's a cult. And like all cults it will blow up and destroy itself. The only question is how many people will get fucked up by it before that happens.

It's interesting listening to the silence of the hipster left on the DC case - the Novarra types were fully - aggressively - signed up but strangely they ain't saying much on this at the moment. Bit of re-positioning going on?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Lucas has been 'terfblocked' because she has agreed to talk to the Woman's Place people next week.

This horrible affair might possibly mark a bit of a watershed moment in the terf wars. It is possibly the clearest demonstration of how the debate has to change, from the trans activists' side. They cannot just scream 'bigot' at anyone who does not agree with them that trans women are women, while shoving them (and anyone who talks to them) on 'ignore'. They need to acknowledge that there are other ways of looking at issues of sex and gender identity from theirs, that there are other perfectly valid definitions and points of view. They need to find a way to start respecting certain positions that they currently label 'terf'.

I was just coming to post that.

CAROLINE Lucas has defended her decision after she announced she would meet with a group widely seen as transphobic.

The Green MP for Brighton Pavillion tweeted on Sunday that she had contacted the controversial Woman’s Place UK group and would meet them next week.

The announcement of her meeting prompted outrage from many Green supporters who felt that the party’s only MP should not be meeting with a fringe group thought by many to have unacceptable views.

MP criticised over meeting anti-trans group

 

[SpackleFrog]

Well, personally I think that someone's private sex life being based around an adult baby fetish and other fetishes based on infantilised fantasy stuff like bronies (based on a toy marketed heavily to primary school aged girls) means that they ARE unsuitable for public office, certainly for public office in which they are pushing for women and girls' sex based protections to be removed. Apparently that's an unfashionable thing to say but I don't really give a fuck. Aimee Challenor shouldn't be advising policy if that's what she gets off on. She's not a suitable person.

Oh fuck off you boring old dickhead.

 

[xenon]

Oh fuck off you boring old dickhead.

Really? You’ve lost it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

It's not just *any old* 'kinky/weird stuff' though, is it? AC's nappy fetish as exposed in the tweets posted by WP is very reminiscent of that of DC, who would wear both nappies and a girl's dress while raping his victim.

I don't see why someone who shares the same kinks as the perpetrator, who lived in the same house as him while he was abusing his victim, who clearly lied about her knowledge of the crime to her party and who was a fellow traveller in pushing an agenda that would, if it came to fruition, potentially remove safeguards and allow potential abusers easier access to vulnerable people shouldn't come under some degree of scrutiny. I've no doubt that AC is a victim herself and, as you say, damaged by her background but to simply ask questions about a very grim subject isn't necessarily cynical muck raking, IMO.

Look, lots of people are into weird stuff and don't commit any crimes. Lots of rapists and paedophiles have had glittering political careers with no issues whatsoever.

It's not reminiscent at all. Because DC raped and abused a child. Consent and being of age are the pertinent issues here. DC was convicted because the brave victim told her story and told people what he had done. Nobody has accused AC of anything.

We need as a society to get better at supporting women and girls who are victims of sexual abuse. But you don't do that by inventing allegations that aren't there and saying well they must be guilty of something they're trans AND a pervert and they're related to that guy. It won't help any more than demonising gay men as paedophiles in the 1970's helped to support child victims of sexual assault.

 

[SpackleFrog]

No regret, no reflection, no attempt to understand, just accuse, accuse, accuse. "I haven't done anything wrong, it's everyone else" - this is what abusers say.

You don't show any regret, reflection, attempt to understand and you accuse others constantly. Are you a paedo?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Continuity Woodcraft Folk.

I'd totally vote for the Kibbo Kift if they were on ballot.

 

[Wilf]

I was just coming to post that.


MP criticised over meeting anti-trans group

My interest in this thread has been more about the debate as an aspect of the left, wondering the connections might be to wider struggles and the rest. Ironically, though not as part of the left, Lucas is actually making some connections, talking across the divides (following the Challenor stuff of course). That she then bounces straight over to becoming a terf as a result is bonkers. Green party should be more concerned with having a child rapist in their ranks/an election agent.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Still one of the four parties I'd potentially vote for. If we don't look after the environment, we're all fucked, but particularly poorer people. Also Caroline is against arms sales to some horrific regimes. So, yeah, I'm not going to automatically disqualify them when it comes to voting.

They're not going to look after the environment, they haven't got a clue, useless wastes of skin all of them. Look at Greens in Ireland, Germany, Brighton etc.

 

[cupid_stunt]

You don't show any regret, reflection, attempt to understand and you accuse others constantly. Are you a paedo?

That's out of order.

 

[SpackleFrog]

That's out or order.

How is it more out of order than what co-op said in the first place? Who made them the Paedofinder General?

 

[Treacle Toes]

You don't show any regret, reflection, attempt to understand and you accuse others constantly. Are you a paedo?

You've just been abusive to weepiper by telling her to fuck off and calling her a boring old dickhead because she has an opinion that differs to yours. By your logic I should also be asking you if you are a paedo then?

FFs, have a word with yourself.

 

[kebabking]

How is it more out of order than what co-op said in the first place? Who made them the Paedofinder General?

its Noncefinder General, it, err.. roles off the tongue easier.

 

[co-op]

Are you a paedo?

This is pretty desperate.

 

[SpackleFrog]

its Noncefinder General, it, err.. roles off the tongue easier.

Nah fam

 

[co-op]

How is it more out of order than what co-op said in the first place? Who made them the Paedofinder General?

Who made you the Bigot-finder General? Which side has ensured that this entire goat-fuck of a debate has been conducted in the most extreme, abusive and morally repugnant terms?

If you don't like something I've posted why not actually quote it and say why it's wrong? Instead you reach automatically for the most extreme abuse.

 

[SpackleFrog]

You've just been abusive to weepiper by telling her to fuck off and calling her a boring old dickhead because she has an opinion that differs to yours. By your logic I should also be asking you if you are a paedo then?

FFs, have a word with yourself.

No, not my logic. Co-op's logic. The person who has kept this whole thing going with lies and distortions in a (partially) successful effort to make the case of horrific cis male paedophile somehow about his young trans (and according to a lot of people on here very stupid and vulnerable) trans daughter.

But for the record, yes, I think if you think a sexual fetish involving consenting adults means you're unfit for office then you are a boring old dickhead and probably pretty bigoted as well. What's next? Lock up all the adult babies or whatever they call themselves because their sexual fetish is somehow unacceptable while actual rapists and paedophiles have had careers in the BBC and Parliament?

 

[lazythursday]

Who made you the Bigot-finder General? Which side has ensured that this entire goat-fuck of a debate has been conducted in the most extreme, abusive and morally repugnant terms?

If you don't like something I've posted why not actually quote it and say why it's wrong? Instead you reach automatically for the most extreme abuse.

Which side? Surely it is both sides. This case is a good example. The sheer desperation of many gender critical voices to somehow prove that AC is involved with her father's abuse because that will help the trans=perverts case has been particularly unedifying.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Who made you the Bigot-finder General? Which side has ensured that this entire goat-fuck of a debate has been conducted in the most extreme, abusive and morally repugnant terms?

If you don't like something I've posted why not actually quote it and say why it's wrong? Instead you reach automatically for the most extreme abuse.

I've done that with you, remember?

The TERFS are *all* wrong but that doesn't make everything else right.



Mate. You do need to show some evidence of what you're claiming actually - where is this self id thing coming from? Stonewall are a group who up until very recently referred to themselves as representing LGB - not trans people, they were specifically exluded. I don't know what daft, shitty politics Stonewall are putting out and don't much care, but it's pretty out of order to use Stonewall to criticise "TRA's" as you term them - Stonewall have had nothing to do with the struggle for trans rights.

I haven't seen anyone - Greens, Stonewall or otherwise - seriously arguing for self id. If you're claiming you have then show some evidence.



This is fucking seriously shitty and duplicitious - you've written here that a trans woman was "caught with "her" dick out" last month and that's not what happened is it? Bradley was suspended for posting explicit pictures on her blog: NUS Trans Officer suspended over claims she posted explicit photographs of a person flashing

Out of fucking order. I hope you're gonna apologise.



Just wanna restate and add to this. Nobody has shown any evidence that this sadistic child rapist has at any point claimed to self identify as trans. Those of you attempting to use the rape of a child as a stick to beat trans people with, it's fucking LOW.

I don't think it's the be-all and end-all of gender, but the reverse. Sex is the basis of women's oppression, gender is the means. Sex does not equal gender. Nor does "identifying" this way or that change sex.




Yep I had; the account of it I saw claimed it was JB taking photos of "her" flashing "her" dick. If I've got that wrong of course I withdraw it, and you're right absence of denial doesn't mean guilt, but it's a funny thing not to deny if you've not done it.




This stuff just bounces off me so you should save yourself the effort. Everyone knows that if you deviate from the trans script you're going to get called every thing under the sun. It's lost its power over me. That's what people mean by peaktrans I think.

Just checked the usual news sources and it looks to me like there is a strong suggestion that it *is* JB but unproven as yet. EG



But you're right no proof. No denial. Expensive lawyers - Peter Carter-Ruck no less!

Just some examples of you deliberately engaging in untruths which you refused to respond to other than saying "Oh I heard different."

Also what happened to this?

Ok you're obviously incapable of doing anything except throw stupid abuse around. Onto ignore with ya. Bye.

 

[co-op]

Also what happened to this?

The thread stopped making sense so it was obvious that someone I have on ignore was posting stuff; I only ignore you and Pickman's Model. So I looked and saw that you thought you'd decided to start claiming some equivalence between what I've posted and the behaviour of the Challenors. Cute. It's a good reminder of why I put you on ignore in the first place and why you're going back on. Life's too short to waste time on the likes of you.

 

[Spymaster]

Ahhh, a bunfight hiding in the corner disguised as a Green Party thread!

Trouble is, once threads hit around the 10 pages mark, people start getting curious.

Can I join in?

 

[weepiper]

Oh fuck off you boring old dickhead.

Constructive.

 

[Wilf]

Ahhh, a bunfight hiding in the corner disguised as a Green Party thread!

Trouble is, once threads hit around the 10 pages mark, people start getting curious.

Can I join in?

There should be a temperature gauge for threads on the main forums page. This one officially just went RED.

 

[The Boy]

Can I join in?

You can. Whether you may or not is a different question.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Constructive.

Fine, alright then. Weird sexual fetishes don't make someone unsuitable for public office. Why do you think they do? What is it about you that thinks "oh dearie me I don't want the person cutting benefits and axing jobs to be into latex or enjoy shitting themselves that would be terrible".

I mean, adult baby fanatics would literally be an improvement on the actual violent criminals which inhabit Parliament.

You're right it wasn't constructive. But how constructive was it for you to repost that twitter thread basically saying that because someone is into weird stuff and their dad is guilty of heinous sexual violence against a child so they must be to? How is that useful? Why do you expect your view that people you consider to be sexually deviant are unsuitable for public office to be taken seriously? Would you take me seriously if I said someone shouldn't be an MP if they were Catholic or gay?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Ahhh, a bunfight hiding in the corner disguised as a Green Party thread!

Trouble is, once threads hit around the 10 pages mark, people start getting curious.

Can I join in?

The worst thing about this is I really hate the Green Party but come on in, join the party!

 

[Spymaster]

This one officially just went RED.

Flashing amber I reckon. As U75 kick-offs go this is quite genteel. It’s the kind of scrap you imagine could go off in Suburban but never quite has. I just searched the thread for the word “cunt” and it’s only been used once in 10 pages and that was with regards to the GP themselves.

It’s a sneaky tactic though. Putting “Green Party” in a thread title is guaranteed to stop most people opening it so you can have it all to yourself. As I said though, once it gets a bit lengthy people think “who the fuck can post about the Green Party for 10 pages without dying of boredom” and they open it to have a look.

Ta da!