The Dominic Cummings file

[eatmorecheese]

Thing is, Cummings has done his job now really. He got Johnson elected, and with a big majority. Whatever happens to him now, he's been a success.

Only on his own terms. Hard to think of such a morally futile career (on my terms)...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think they'll throw the chief medical and scientific officers under there first. "We were just listening to the experts"

Like all good government specialist advisors in the UK, they provide the expert backing for whatever batshit crazy policy their masters think up. Just look at the state of the ACMD

Whitty and Vallance have played a VERY poor game. Where they could have provided - and publicised, from their own positions - evidence and arguments for assessment, instead they fed the govt's requirements for positions that supported govt plans. They DESERVE to go under the bus.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Someone is shitting themselves

Sue then. If you don't you're a fucking liar Cummings.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Someone is shitting themselves

Yep. If it's a fabrication, then Cumface has recourse to the courts, as does Johnson. This is bluster. They're probably hoping Murdoch will put the screws on the journo to retract and/or give up their source.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thing is, Cummings has done his job now really. He got Johnson elected, and with a big majority. Whatever happens to him now, he's been a success.

I don't fully agree. To be a success, even in his own cod-psychological terms, he'd have had to made sure that the tactics he uses didn't become common knowledge. Now journos and opposition MPs etc know what to look out for, if they have any testicular or fallopian fortitude.

 

[little_legs]

Sue then. If you don't you're a fucking liar Cummings.

he won’t because he knows if it goes to court then it’s a matter of public record that he wanted all pensioners to die.

 

[ViolentPanda]

To be honest I hope the bus fucking reverses back over them just to make sure

A JCB or a main battle tank would be better. You could squish around on the spot until they were just anonymous pinky/reddy/grey pulp.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That's been clear since August 1914

Now THERE was an anniversary the govt kept quiet!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Only on his own terms. Hard to think of such a morally futile career (on my terms)...

It's plainly obvious that he sees himself as an eminence gris, and that morality isn't a value that forms part of his universe - didn't when he advised Pob-faced Cunt at Education, and hasn't since. I doubt he sees it as futile, though. He's enabled something he desired immensely - the exit of the UK from the EU, most likely on HIS preferred terms, rather than the terms most suitable for the country-at-large.

 

[ViolentPanda]

he won’t because he knows if it goes to court then it’s a matter of public record that he wanted all pensioners to die.

Or that he was at least comfortable with a certain percentage of elderly people kicking the bucket.

The great thing is, even saying "some" is as bad as saying "all", because none of the be-wrinkled elders will know whether he meant them or not!

 

[little_legs]

Like the lady at the end of this vid, you mean?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Like the lady at the end of this vid, you mean?

Fuck me. Major league stupid!!!

 

[stavros]

A JCB or a main battle tank would be better. You could squish around on the spot until they were just anonymous pinky/reddy/grey pulp.

A JCB would be ironic.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A JCB would be ironic.

Hence my inclusion of the option of a main battle tank, in case Bamford took offence at his product being used to liquidate Tories.

 

[brogdale]

Good to see Ian is still keeping himself busy.

 

[gosub]

Was good of him to self isolate as quickly as he did, not stroll home wittering about things like "herd immunity".

would be one way of spinning things

 

[Part-timah]

So, he’s still got symptoms after 7 days?

Looks like Mr Cummings may be hoisted by his own petard.

 

[Serge Forward]

"And if Dominic Cummings dies, too bad."

 

[DaveCinzano]

Bet now he wished for vaccine and not herd

 

[DaveCinzano]

Once more with enthusiasm

 

[ska invita]

Have we had this

The Coronavirus Crisis: Herd Immunity has Infected UK Policy – But Who Was Patient Zero for this Toxic Transatlantic Idea?

Peter Jukes finds more evidence that the origin of the disastrous concept can be traced back to the Prime Minister's chief advisor Dominic Cummings and his US links.

bylinetimes.com

.
article charts Cummings written interest in pandemics and how to combat them....including the concept of herd immunity....he fancied himself on the subject basically.
The Times quote attributed to Cummings at COBRA of “protect the economy and if some pensioners die, too bad” does fit the bigger picture

 

[ska invita]

Have we had this

The Coronavirus Crisis: Herd Immunity has Infected UK Policy – But Who Was Patient Zero for this Toxic Transatlantic Idea?

Peter Jukes finds more evidence that the origin of the disastrous concept can be traced back to the Prime Minister's chief advisor Dominic Cummings and his US links.

bylinetimes.com

.
article charts Cummings written interest in pandemics and how to combat them....including the concept of herd immunity....he fancied himself on the subject basically.
The Times quote attributed to Cummings at COBRA of “protect the economy and if some pensioners die, too bad” does fit the bigger picture

that piece is actually a part 2 to this part 1, but I think part 2 has the decisive evidence of Cummings fingerprints

The Herd Instinct and 'Herd Immunity': The Etiology of a Bad Idea

The science didn't change – the politics did. Peter Jukes follows an inflammatory and disastrous theory as it spread rapidly through the British body politic.

bylinetimes.com

 

[redsquirrel]

Have we had this

The Coronavirus Crisis: Herd Immunity has Infected UK Policy – But Who Was Patient Zero for this Toxic Transatlantic Idea?

Peter Jukes finds more evidence that the origin of the disastrous concept can be traced back to the Prime Minister's chief advisor Dominic Cummings and his US links.

bylinetimes.com

.
article charts Cummings written interest in pandemics and how to combat them....including the concept of herd immunity....he fancied himself on the subject basically.
The Times quote attributed to Cummings at COBRA of “protect the economy and if some pensioners die, too bad” does fit the bigger picture

Sorry but that is total fucking gash, a load of dubious barely evidenced claims. If the Murdoch press had published the equivalent you'd have rejected it outright so why accept it here. Even if Cummings did have the position you ascribe to him there is no reason to believe

Given his seven year interest in this, it is hard to avoid the evidence that Cummings is the source of the herd immunity error.

 

[brogdale]

Sorry but that is total fucking gash, a load of dubious barely evidenced claims. If the Murdoch press had published the equivalent you'd have rejected it outright so why accept it here. Even if Cummings did have the position you ascribe to him there is no reason to believe

Not sure what more evidence is needed when Vallance explicitly stated that it was Govt. policy and Johnson alluded to it live on TV.
Without a release of Govt. papers or a proper inquiry, ascribing blame for the disastrous mistake will inevitably be speculative to some degree. But it’s not very far fetched to examine the repugnant personal beliefs of Johnson’s Chief Advisor for clues.

 

[redsquirrel]

Not sure what more evidence is needed when Vallance explicitly stated that it was Govt. policy and Johnson alluded to it live on TV.

That's not the claim being made though it is. Jukes (the author of the piece linked above) is specifically claiming that source of this policy was Cummings. On no fucking evidence whatsoever.
ska invita himself on another thread linked to a much better sourced piece looking at the interplay between the science and politics that rationalises how the government decisions were made with not reference to Cummings.

 

[weltweit]

The last I saw of him was literally doing a runner from No 10. Why was he running, I just don't understand that, perhaps he was about to miss his bus?

 

[brogdale]

That's not the claim being made though it is. Jukes (the author of the piece linked above) is specifically claiming that source of this policy was Cummings. On no fucking evidence whatsoever.
ska invita himself on another thread linked to a much better sourced piece looking at the interplay between the science and politics that rationalises how the government decisions were made with not reference to Cummings.

Yes, that was a good article which largely focussed on the various sources of scientific advice offered to the government. But the Jukes (no fan) approach does complement the Reuters piece as it considers the political/ideological filter(s) through which that advice was passed and, most crucially, the parameters within which the scientific advice was conceived. To ignore this side of the equation risks validating the Tories 'get out of gaol' excuse that they were only following the science.



To say that Johnson's steer to the scientists and interpretation of their modelled findings would not have been affected by Cummings' very particular views seems somewhat naive.

I think Jukes is spot on in anticipating that the Tories have long been busily constructing the 'post-virus' excuse and blame strategy and I see his piece as a counter to that emerging narrative.

 

[ska invita]

I think Johnson was more than "alluding" to it - you don't go on Good Morning Britain to talk in abstract about herd immunity and taking it on the chin. Its very much an address the nation TV spot, especially so under the circumstances, whatever Trumpian "some say" qualifiers fell out of his mouth.

The "we had milder interventions in place" was also downplayed as in practice nothing happened other than Boris Johnson bragging about shaking hands potentially with C19 patients and suggesting its up to the public to "make up their own minds", and getting prepared to "take it on the chin".

The Reuters piece points out that at that point they had a report by the government’s own pandemic modelling committee (two weeks before the Imperial College report) which spelled out the potential catastrophe, but their own thinking clearly overrode it at that point, and those key decisions and reasonings were had with Cummings and cabinet present.

 

[redsquirrel]

To say that Johnson's steer to the scientists and interpretation of their modelled findings would not have been affected by Cummings' very particular views seems somewhat naive.

It's not Johnson steer though is it. Neo-liberal governments do not needed to be steered to the focus on protecting capital.

This Johnson/Cummings planning to kill off people is the fantasy of mad liberals broken by the EU referendum - Jukes being a perfect example of this. Johnson is at once a libertarian and a nationalist populist, it's twaddle. Look at the articles on that site, it's Skwawkbox for liberals.

 

[bimble]

Another pretty good piece tracing where Herd Immunity idea came from - and not mentioning Cummings the evil genius.
Also suggests it may not have gone away.

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2020/04/04/1586015208000/Imperial-s-Neil-Ferguson---We-don-t-have-a-clear-exit-strategy-/#