The Dominic Cummings file

[maomao]

It won't have any effect at all. There is no mechanism by which it could have an effect and however amusing it was to watch a disgruntled ex-employee and renowned liar coating off his old boss, that's all it was. It will barely dent the opinion polls and the Tories won't be getting rid of their most popular leader since Thatcher anytime soon.

Hancock might have a hard time, which could be amusing to watch, but he certainly won't be sacked as a result of what Cummings said. And however bad Hancock is nor should he be. Hung from a lamppost by bereaved relatives certainly but sacked as the result of gossip at a parliamentary commitee? No thanks.

 

[William of Walworth]

It won't have any effect at all. There is no mechanism by which it could have an effect and however amusing it was to watch a disgruntled ex-employee and renowned liar coating off his old boss, that's all it was. It will barely dent the opinion polls and the Tories won't be getting rid of their most popular leader since Thatcher anytime soon.

Hancock might have a hard time, which could be amusing to watch, but he certainly won't be sacked as a result of what Cummings said. And however bad Hancock is nor should he be. Hung from a lamppost by bereaved relatives certainly but sacked as the result of gossip at a parliamentary commitee? No thanks.

I agree with your post generally ( ) but I think "gossip" is the wrong word to use about this.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I avoided this thread yesterday, when I was watching much of it, because I kept having to pause the coverage due to various interruptions, so I was well behind others & didn't want any spoilers, but it was certainly entertaining to watch, just a shame the witness lacks any real credibility.

We all know what a complete liar he is, but I am not sure that applies to the vast majority of the general public, however, they will remember the Barnard Castle/Rose Garden events, which will introduce doubt in minds over his credibility. And, it would have helped if he had actually resigned much earlier & spoken out straight away, rather than hanging in until he was basically sacked, which also introduces more doubts over his motivation and agenda.

A lot of what he said we know to be true, a lot was stuff we suspected was true, and he seems to have confirmed that, but OTHO there's no doubt in my mind that there was elements of spin and out right lies in the mix too, which makes it earlier for Johnson, Hancock & co to defend themselves.

I doubt that most of us would question much of what he said about Johnson as being true, we know he's incompetent and a bumbling twat, so I did enjoy Cummings saying he was like a 'shopping trolley smashing from one side of the aisle to the other', that is 100% believable.

As is what he said about the chaos in number 10, and Johnson retorting that 'chaos isn't that bad' because it 'means everyone has to look to me to see who is in charge'.

What we need is someone else, with real credibility, stepping up to the mark and backing up most of what he said, then there would be a chance of the shit sticking to Johnson in the minds of the public, and possibly pushing the Tory party to move against him. He's leader and PM not because the party membership & MPs thinks he's any good, he's only in that position because they saw him as the most electable, once his electability disappears, so does he, in plenty time to replace him before the next GE.

Sadly, I expect all we're going to get is some uncomfortable headlines, TV interviews & questions in parliament over the coming days, which they will ride out, until the media & public get bored with it.

 

[maomao]

I agree with your post generally ( ) but I think "gossip" is the wrong word to use about this.

casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Entertaining front page from the comic known as the Daily Star -

'Dominic "Knobo" Cummings confirms what we've been saying for 14 months - this mob don't have a Scooby.'

 

[Pickman's model]

I avoided this thread yesterday, when I was watching much of it, because I kept having to pause the coverage due to various interruptions, so I was well behind others & didn't want any spoilers, but it was certainly entertaining to watch, just a shame the witness lacks any real credibility.

We all know what a complete liar he is, but I am not sure that applies to the vast majority of the general public, however, they will remember the Barnard Castle/Rose Garden events, which will introduce doubt in minds over his credibility. And, it would have helped if he had actually resigned much earlier & spoken out straight away, rather than hanging in until he was basically sacked, which also introduces more doubts over his motivation and agenda.

A lot of what he said we know to be true, a lot was stuff we suspected was true, and he seems to have confirmed that, but OTHO there's no doubt in my mind that there was elements of spin and out right lies in the mix too, which makes it earlier for Johnson, Hancock & co to defend themselves.

I doubt that most of us would question much of what he said about Johnson as being true, we know he's incompetent and a bumbling twat, so I did enjoy Cummings saying he was like a 'shopping trolley smashing from one side of the aisle to the other', that is 100% believable.

As is what he said about the chaos in number 10, and Johnson retorting that 'chaos isn't that bad' because it 'means everyone has to look to me to see who is in charge'.

What we need is someone else, with real credibility, stepping up to the mark and backing up most of what he said, then there would be a chance of the shit sticking to Johnson in the minds of the public, and possibly pushing the Tory party to move against him. He's leader and PM not because the party membership & MPs thinks he's any good, he's only in that position because they saw him as the most electable, once his electability disappears, so does he, in plenty time to replace him before the next GE.

Sadly, I expect all we're going to get is some uncomfortable headlines, TV interviews & questions in parliament over the coming days, which they will ride out, until the media & public get bored with it.

Angela Rayner on the today programme sounded like she'd been given three things to say and amazingly remembered all of them. But she was right that it doesn't matter if Cummings is right or wrong, what he's said demands investigation.

As for how long it's in the public mind, in 2009 the Ian Tomlinson killing was featured prominently in the media for more than a month after his death. This is much more serious and if the government continue as they've started with jenrick on the toady programme this won't go away

 

[cupid_stunt]

Angela Rayner on the today programme sounded like she'd been given three things to say and amazingly remembered all of them. But she was right that it doesn't matter if Cummings is right or wrong, what he's said demands investigation.

As for how long it's in the public mind, in 2009 the Ian Tomlinson killing was featured prominently in the media for more than a month after his death. This is much more serious and if the government continue as they've started with jenrick on the toady programme this won't go away

Yes, but no, but yes, a public enquiry is coming, blah, blah, bloody blah.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, but no, but yes, a public enquiry is coming, blah, blah, bloody blah.

That's a more coherent reply than I was expecting

 

[ska invita]

bereaved families suing is the only thing i can imagine making an impact - and the hearing would be wrapped up relatively quickly compared to an enquiry. a public enquiry might for once be useful in that it would help create a better state response to the next pandemic, but it wont result in any political change of course

 

[brogdale]

With Cummings claiming that Hancock's lies resulted in the involuntary state euthanasia of tens of thousands of care home residents, the Shadow Health Secretary's first utterance on Peston last night was to emphasise that he was not calling for Hancock to resign.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Saw this last night and not going to lie its just circling in my head and I'll never not find it funny.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I avoided this thread yesterday, when I was watching much of it, because I kept having to pause the coverage due to various interruptions, so I was well behind others & didn't want any spoilers, but it was certainly entertaining to watch, just a shame the witness lacks any real credibility.

We all know what a complete liar he is, but I am not sure that applies to the vast majority of the general public, however, they will remember the Barnard Castle/Rose Garden events, which will introduce doubt in minds over his credibility. And, it would have helped if he had actually resigned much earlier & spoken out straight away, rather than hanging in until he was basically sacked, which also introduces more doubts over his motivation and agenda.

A lot of what he said we know to be true, a lot was stuff we suspected was true, and he seems to have confirmed that, but OTHO there's no doubt in my mind that there was elements of spin and out right lies in the mix too, which makes it earlier for Johnson, Hancock & co to defend themselves.

I doubt that most of us would question much of what he said about Johnson as being true, we know he's incompetent and a bumbling twat, so I did enjoy Cummings saying he was like a 'shopping trolley smashing from one side of the aisle to the other', that is 100% believable.

As is what he said about the chaos in number 10, and Johnson retorting that 'chaos isn't that bad' because it 'means everyone has to look to me to see who is in charge'.

What we need is someone else, with real credibility, stepping up to the mark and backing up most of what he said, then there would be a chance of the shit sticking to Johnson in the minds of the public, and possibly pushing the Tory party to move against him. He's leader and PM not because the party membership & MPs thinks he's any good, he's only in that position because they saw him as the most electable, once his electability disappears, so does he, in plenty time to replace him before the next GE.

Sadly, I expect all we're going to get is some uncomfortable headlines, TV interviews & questions in parliament over the coming days, which they will ride out, until the media & public get bored with it.

The fact he's more or less given Sunak and Gove a free pass is clearly spin, even if its unconscious bias on his part that "those pair think like me"

 

[brogdale]

Saw this last night and not going to lie its just circling in my head and I'll never not find it funny.

Listen carefully "...and...saying lies..."

 

[Smokeandsteam]

As for how long it's in the public mind, in 2009 the Ian Tomlinson killing was featured prominently in the media for more than a month after his death. This is much more serious and if the government continue as they've started with jenrick on the toady programme this won't go away

Spot on. Cummings performance won’t bring Johnson down, but it’s confirmed and added to a narrative that isn’t going away. As the understandable relief about the vaccine and life ‘returning to normal’ subsides the longer term consequences for the economy and health will sharpen. For starters there are 150,000 people who lost a loved one who’ll continue to be asking a simple question: why?

 

[ska invita]

150,000 people who lost a loved one who’ll continue to be asking a simple question: why?

how many of them live in key marginals?

 

[cupid_stunt]

The fact he's more or less given Sunak and Gove a free pass is clearly spin, even if its unconscious bias on his part that "those pair think like me"

I can believe Gove pushing for quicker lockdowns, because there's been plenty of reports on that, but I am not convinced that Sunak did, as there's been so many reports of him pushing back against them.

 

[ruffneck23]

For starters there are 150,000 people who lost a loved one who’ll continue to be asking a simple question: why?

I think it's the families of the 150,000 people who died who will be asking the question why? and that's a whole load more people...

 

[cupid_stunt]

Anyway, the Handcock show starts in the Commons from around 10.30 am, the squirming will probably be entertaining.

 

[brogdale]

If those families of the glorious national martyrs keep on bleating about their loss it's clear that they're just Marxist scum who hate their own country.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I think it's the families of the 150,000 people who died who will be asking the question why? and that's a whole load more people...

And friends. I don’t know many who haven’t been touched by it in some way. That’s not going away because of the vaccine

 

[ElizabethofYork]

There are still people on Fuckbook saying that "Boris did his best" and "Thank god Labour weren't in power" and stuff like that. There are plenty of people who won't hear a word against this shower of shite.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

There are still people on Fuckbook saying that "Boris did his best" and "Thank god Labour weren't in power" and stuff like that. There are plenty of people who won't hear a word against this shower of shite.

I agree. I regularly see and hear similar. But, people have had a lot to cope with and shit to deal with. At the moment the overwhelming mood is one of relief that things might finally be turning a corner. But, as with every process, the mood will shift and people will want to know how it happened and how they can be assured it won’t happen again. That’s going to raise all sorts of questions about the state, the economy and the political class.

 

[Artaxerxes]

There are still people on Fuckbook saying that "Boris did his best" and "Thank god Labour weren't in power" and stuff like that. There are plenty of people who won't hear a word against this shower of shite.

My honest take on Corbyn is that he tries to lockdown earlier but a lot more opposition to it occurs, like a lot more, this does result in some fuckery. Once summer is over and things have calmed down we'd get a lot more push back to get back up and running but Labour again tries to lockdown sooner and make it clear a normal Christmas isn't happening. This once again gets a lot of push back by the usual suspects and potentially even a VoNC.

With luck we'd probably get at least 50k less deaths but it would be a struggle and we would of course see that the more successful Labour* was in minimising the numbers the more vocal opponents would be in insisting it wasn't needed.

Overall though we'd have a lot less deaths but I do think we'd be further behind on vaccines, the government chucked basically everything at everyone to sort out vaccines but Labour likely tries to stick to one, maybe two sources and takes part in the EU schemes further diluting the amount available.


*I should also say that in fairness this applies to any government - success so often breeds in the attitude that "well everything was fine, what was the fuss" about disasters.

 

[Pickman's model]

My honest take on Corbyn is that he tries to lockdown earlier but a lot more opposition to it occurs, like a lot more, this does result in some fuckery. Once summer is over and things have calmed down we'd get a lot more push back to get back up and running but Labour again tries to lockdown sooner and make it clear a normal Christmas isn't happening. This once again gets a lot of push back by the usual suspects and potentially even a VoNC.

With luck we'd probably get at least 50k less deaths but it would be a struggle and we would of course see that the more successful Labour* was in minimising the numbers the more vocal opponents would be in insisting it wasn't needed.

Overall though we'd have a lot less deaths but I do think we'd be further behind on vaccines, the government chucked basically everything at everyone to sort out vaccines but Labour likely tries to stick to one, maybe two sources and takes part in the EU schemes further diluting the amount available.


*I should also say that in fairness this applies to any government - success so often breeds in the attitude that "well everything was fine, what was the fuss" about disasters.

What would have happened is a load of shite about vaccines along the lines of a) Corbyn to nationalise pharma and b) Corbyn causes deaths in europe

 

[Knotted]

I don't think the government, the PM or the Tories in general are incompetent. For them government is not about managing disaster. Whereas managing public opinion is a central element of politics and government, and here they have been ruthlessly efficient. Until yesterday that is. They have been extremely good at messaging, looking like they are doing their best and blaming the public for the death toll. Until yesterday that is.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't think the government, the PM or the Tories in general are incompetent. For them government is not about managing disaster. Whereas managing public opinion is a central element of politics and government, and here they have been ruthlessly efficient. Until yesterday that is. They have been extremely good at messaging, looking like they are doing their best and blaming the public for the death toll. Until yesterday that is.

There seems to be a disconnent between what you say the government thinks government is about and what everybody else thinks government is about. And when people think they've been fooled they really don't like it.

 

[gosub]

I don't think the government, the PM or the Tories in general are incompetent. For them government is not about managing disaster. Whereas managing public opinion is a central element of politics and government, and here they have been ruthlessly efficient. Until yesterday that is. They have been extremely good at messaging, looking like they are doing their best and blaming the public for the death toll. Until yesterday that is.

Get some extra PPE on the next BOAT out of China and get loads of vinyl printing done about staying 2m apart, wasn't a particularly competent response to a pandemic in my opinion.

 

[Knotted]

There seems to be a disconnent between what you say the government thinks government is about and what everybody else thinks government is about. And when people think they've been fooled they really don't like it.

I agree, I think Boris is in deep trouble now. It's not going to go away either, there's going to be an investigation and it's going to go on and on. And the virus hasn't gone away either.

 

[Knotted]

Get some extra PPE on the next BOAT out of China and get loads of vinyl printing done about staying 2m apart, wasn't a particularly competent response to a pandemic in my opinion.

From their point of view it doesn't matter as long as their electoral coalition don't see it that way.

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree, I think Boris is in deep trouble now. It's not going to go away either, there's going to be an investigation and it's going to go on and on. And the virus hasn't gone away either.

No on knows whether there are more investigations into Johnson's actions than he has children, not even Johnson