The Brexit process
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
No, not really more so. As guilty as others, yeah.
Anju
Well-Known Member
I was wondering about this and have realised that when people were talking about sovereignty and being able to make our own laws they are referring to immigration laws.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Some may have been. I wasn't.
Anju
Well-Known Member
Sorry, should have been clearer. Didn't mean to say everyone but if you ask people which laws they have a problem with most will not give any details. I take that to mean they are thinking about immigration but don't want to say so.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
just off the top of my head...
- local government finance act 1992
- public order act 1986
- terrorism act 2000
- offences against the person act 1861
- criminal justice and public order act 1994
Anju
Well-Known Member
I don't think Urban is exactly representative of the population as a whole.
I have no idea if the laws you quote are EU or UK laws and neither would most people. Theresa and myself both think it is safe to assume that the vast majority of leave voters are only concerned with immigration law.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, those are uk laws. even the 1861 one.
bimble
floofy
She definitely appears to be proceeding as if the question we were asked in the referendum was "Do you think there are too many foreigners coming over here? Yes / NO"
I don't know how much of it is just posturing and bluff though.
Anju
Well-Known Member
OK, I was just giving my opinion on why the government is concentrating on immigration when many people gave sovereignty and EU laws as a reason for voting leave. To many the reason they were concerned with EU law was solely related to immigration.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'm sure there's lots of eu laws to which i would object if only i knew of them.
are you expecting them to reel off a list of laws?
Anju
Well-Known Member
I'm expecting people to know why they voted to leave the EU.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i'm sure that nearly four months on even the most inarticulate bonehead could have cobbled something together.
Anju
Well-Known Member
I thought your objections to the EU were on a more fundamental level.
I'm sure they do know why. does that require being able to list specific laws when anyone asks? I know why I voted leave and I wouldn't be able to name any laws at all.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They do. Your post conflates what the current govt is doing with those reasons. You don't offer anything why this is the case being you just "working it out". Despite loads of posts from you asserting this is the the case in the week after the vote.
Anju
Well-Known Member
You would think so. I accepted a Facebook friend request from an ex colleague who it turns out is a UKIP supporter. Yesterday he posted something saying he did not care what the consequences of brexit are as we can now make our own laws. He also posted 'euro 1.09 GOOD' he seems to be happy just to be in a position to stop immigration. Much as it is interesting to read the posts of him and his friends I probably can't take much more.
you mean they don't read my letters?
Anju
Well-Known Member
If people say they voted leave so we could regain our sovereignty and the ability to male our own laws I would expect them to have some idea of what they meant.
bimble
floofy
I think for some people it might be something to do with straight bananas and all that.
Not about any specific law but the general idea of those Eurocrats meddling in our affairs. Back when Johnson was a journalist I think he wrote about this sort of thing a lot, how we've had enough of being dictated to by unelected foreign red tape mongers etc. Some business owners expect to benefit from the lifting of certain EU regulations I think also.
well it seems fairly straightforward to me. I would interpret it as meaning for example not being subject to EU laws, not being part of a deeply undemocratic and top-down kind of institution. More broadly I think there's a widespread feeling of dispossession, being ignored, powerlessness that, in the present climate, gets expressed as (or lumped in with) 'sovereignty'. These are the sorts of impressions I have got from hearing what people say about it. Obviously I can't speak for whoever you've been talking to.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I have a suspicion that the government may just possibly not give two shits what leave voters' reasons were, and will instead concentrate on using the result to promote the aspects of their policy they can best tie to it.
bimble
floofy
I don't see how the focus on immigration control is actually any good for the traditional interests of the tories though, its bad for business, isn't it?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Immigration control (and associated anti-immigrant sentiment) is great for business. It means you create an underclass of workers who have fewer rights, and helps disrupt working class solidarity.
ETA: let's not even start about how it distracts from the effects of government policy either
bimble
floofy
How so?
I thought an unregulated pool of workers from all over the world would be best for business, best for driving down wages and creating division through competition ?
The vast majority of tory MPs were pro-remain, weren't they.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Factors at play here imo
1) Divide and rule, nativist consciousness vs class consciousness
2) The possibility of a US style situation in which illegal immigration becomes common place, normalised and institutionalised to an extent would mean that it would be easier to exploit the labour of illegal workers than it would be people from other EU member states who have the same or similar recourse to law that British workers do, at least in theory.
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