The Alt-Left

[Tom A]

A model of spreading your message - the one you and your party/network etc have decided is correct - to 'the people' is pretty much just what the left has always done. There's nothing alt- about that. We're just back where we started then aren't we?

Unfortunately (for the left) these days "the people" are pretty adverse of being told of the One True and Correct Message as dictated by whatever organisation is telling them.

 

[butchersapron]

Another thing - again based upon superficial observation - that the Alt-Right appears to be doing that might be mirrored in a left version is the seeming willingness for all the disparate "members" to just carry on doing their own thing (whilst accepting an umbrella label) and thus avoid the energy sapping takeover manouevering/drives for unity.

Though butchersapron mentions a split within the alt-right ranks which may disprove these superficial observations of mine...

I think it's gone into in this long interview (which anyone concerned with this stuff should read) - it may have been another one though. I've waded through so much of this stuff over the last few years that i may have the wrong piece. I'm confident in my saying this a real sore point for the alt-rights big hitters though.

edit: tried numerous ways to break link but keeps turning it into link.

 

[Tom A]

tried numerous ways to break link but keeps turning it into link.

Try using Archive.is - it saves a snapshot of the page so it doesn't directly link to them and give them click traffic.

 

[butchersapron]

Try using Archive.is - it saves a snapshot of the page so it doesn't directly link to them and give them click traffic.

Ta. Will change link now.

 

[inva]

I think it's gone into in this long interview (which anyone concerned with this stuff should read) - it may have been another one though. I've waded through so much of this stuff over the last few years that i may have the wrong piece. I'm confident in my saying this a real sore point for the alt-rights big hitters though.

edit: tried numerous ways to break link but keeps turning it into link.

thanks for posting that, very useful

 

[killer b]

There already is a left 'mirror' of the alt right isn't there? Complete with fake news and awful memes and arseholes on social media - surely what we want is a left that isn't a mirror of that bullshit?

 

[campanula]

The internet is both friend and foe...useful for actually passing on details of meet-ups, events and such...where sheer numbers are vital...but also weirdly atomistic in that we think we have intimacy and collectivity but in actual fact, we are more alone and isolated than we have ever been. I have more or less abandoned political (parliamentary) activity and feel more inclined to concentrate on single issue politics (particularly housing, which is getting deeper resonance across class and age barriers). A mass occupation of common land requires organising (internet) but also needs actual attendance and particpation. Blogging, waffling on the web does not, as far as I can see, produce the collective participation which the Right have been so keen to close down - pretty much everything from pubs to librairies.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

There already is a left 'mirror' of the alt right isn't there? Complete with fake news and awful memes and arseholes on social media - surely what we want is a left that isn't a mirror of that bullshit?

Oh yeah who is that guy on here with the shit jokes about Britain First? That.

We're back to "we want a UKIP of the left" again.

 

[squirrelp]

I've been increasingly finding the left-right paradigm rather one-dimensional

 

[butchersapron]

That's nice dear.

 

[butchersapron]

We demand two dimensions!

 

[butchersapron]

thanks for posting that, very useful

It's so important that we read stuff like this.

 

[Buckaroo]

It's so important that we read stuff like this.

Yes it is but I don't understand why you think that could be a real sore point for the alt-right big hitters. If anything it's the most articulate explanation of their position I've seen, it's bang on their beliefs, ideology and the alt right gig in general.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes it is but I don't understand why you think that could be a real sore point for the alt-right big hitters. If anything it's the most articulate explanation of their position I've seen, it's bang on their beliefs, ideology and the alt right gig in general.

I was suggesting there is a gap between the people Johnson represents - the actual alt-right - and the wider right and that this is over cultural conservatism. The alt-liking it, the new right hating it. It is a huge point for them, almost a defining trait.

 

[Buckaroo]

I was suggesting there is a gap between the people Johnson represents - the actual alt-right - and the wider right and that this is over cultural conservatism. The alt-liking it, the new right hating it. It is a huge point for them, almost a defining trait.

Yep I get that, there's a gap, there are loads of gaps but he seems to be talking about how they have all come together.

"Those people are all ex-libertarians, and they have moved out of libertarianism towards white identity politics in basically the same way I did and a lot of other people have. So, that really is a broad tributary that is flowing into White identity politics and into the overall Alt Right umbrella and it’s a very vital force too."

"So, the broadness of the Alternative Right category really helps, I think. It allows a lot of people to participate in this, but also the broadness of it is threatening to some people because in the end these are not just ideas and fun on the internet. We really do have a vision of society."

As he says the paleo-conservatives and the like, they're all dead.

 

[two sheds]

I was suggesting there is a gap between the people Johnson represents - the actual alt-right - and the wider right and that this is over cultural conservatism. The alt-liking it, the new right hating it. It is a huge point for them, almost a defining trait.

sorry for wiki but

the preservation
of the heritage of one nation, or of a shared culture that is not defined by national boundaries.

the new right hate this? I'd have thought that was something they could all agree on: 'us' versus 'them'?

 

[Dogsauce]

We demand two dimensions!

On a less-enlightened board than this someone would have posted that tedious political compass thing on page 1. Consider ourselves fortunate.

 

[butchersapron]

sorry for wiki but

the new right hate this? I'd have thought that was something they could all agree on: 'us' versus 'them'?

The polices of the new right smashed apart the things that traditional cultural conservatism held dear. The alt-right is in part, a reaction to that. A demand that the right once again take these things seriously.

 

[two sheds]

The polices of the new right smashed apart the things that traditional cultural conservatism held dear. The alt-right is in part, a reaction to that. A demand that the right once again take these things seriously.

wiki again

New Right

(the ideologies of neoconservatism and neoliberalism)

?

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, that new right helped destroy all the things that the alt-right an the cultural conservatives hold dear and that they are a defence of.

What are you seeking to do here?

 

[two sheds]

understand

so after neoconservatives said they were right wing but have shown themselves only really interested in profit, the alt right are demanding they take the 'traditional' right wing views of race and sex seriously?

 

[butchersapron]

understand

so after neoconservatives said they were right wing but have shown themselves only really interested in profit, the alt right are demanding they take the 'traditional' right wing views of race and sex seriously?

I didn't mention neo-conservatives. You did. The alt-right have problems with the neo-liberal right on the lines i suggested.

 

[J Ed]

I didn't mention neo-conservatives. You did. The alt-right have problems with the neo-liberal right on the lines i suggested.

That raises another point on which the alt right seems to be split on, foreign policy. Some of the alt-right are pro-Israel etc whereas others are pro-Russia, pro-Iran etc

 

[J Ed]

Listening to the Laura Raim thing that BA posted now. The libertarian to alt right movement is really interesting, it is something that I have observed in a few individuals but hadn't thought of it as a wider trend.

 

[Idris2002]

We demand two dimensions!

Marcuse was a pussy!

 

[Idris2002]

Listening to the Laura Raim thing that BA posted now. The libertarian to alt right movement is really interesting, it is something that I have observed in a few individuals but hadn't thought of it as a wider trend.

It's not surprising, though, is it?

 

[two sheds]

I didn't mention neo-conservatives. You did. The alt-right have problems with the neo-liberal right on the lines i suggested.

so for example after neo-liberals said they were right wing but have shown themselves only really interested in profit, the alt right are demanding they take the 'traditional' right wing views of race and sex seriously?

am just trying to understand what you said

 

[butchersapron]

so for example after neo-liberals said they were right wing but have shown themselves only really interested in profit, the alt right are demanding they take the 'traditional' right wing views of race and sex seriously?

am just trying to understand what you said

Not interested tonight. Go back to your vodka. Play that game there.

 

[two sheds]

he's gone all huffy with me

anyone else explain?

 

[J Ed]

It's not surprising, though, is it?

Actually yes, I am well aware of the extent of the links between segregationist politics and 'libertarian' politics in the US, so perhaps the wider political trend is unsurprising but in some specific cases it has genuinely surprised me.