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The 2023 Russian Coup.

bimble said:
Still makes no sense at all to me. Putin went on telly yesterday morning promising harsh retribution to all the traitors and by afternoon all’s forgiven you can retire next door, what would make him willing to even appear to backtrack like that?
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It's expedient. No bloodshed, no further major distractions or drama, Wagner ( the majority of whom didn't take part in the road trip to Rostov) becomes assimilated into the Russian Armed Forces. If scores are to be settled then it's later.
 
ska invita said:
maybe not the most accurate word, but he did just try a coup, so something in that ballparl
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Yes, but your point was that Putin (arguably etc) looks more powerful because he got rid of a major rival. He didn't, he created one from one of his most valuable assets.
 
ska invita said:
MI6 and the British Army , not "experts"
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In that case, why are we paying them? Maybe we should outsource to foreign intelligence agencies and militaries, like we do with public transport. I'm currently on an RAPT bus and it's running on time, despite being 200 miles from Paris.

We could offer Prigozhin a flight to Northolt and the opportunity to set up "Elgar".
 
ska invita said:
No offence, but maybe watching an endless parade of Mi6 cunts and British army professional murderers with back to back illegal wars and the ghost corpses of millions piled around them parading on that fantastic impartial institution that is british tv isnt the best place to get a balanced idea of what is happening in Russia.
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They bring their insight to the mix of views out there, they have largely been calling things right at various stages of the war, which is why they are constantly called back over many, many months.

These 'experts' have their own active role in creating this war, and the next one, and the one after that.
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This is just silly, some of the experts are former military & intelligence officers, the key word there is 'former', they have not played any active role in creating this war.
 
bimble said:
Ye but why say it?
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To appear as strong as possible at the time. To his country.

Actions down the line will make any apparent look of weakness right now be forgotten. He's effectively disbanded Wagner without a shot fired and exiled the man to his useful idiot.
 
Magnus McGinty said:
The Skripals were exiled to England as part of a ‘deal’. You’d think you’d be safer there than Belarus.
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I could be wrong but I thought a condition of the 'deal' (spy swap) was Sergei's retirement. But he then carried on doing spy shit thus breaking the deal.
 
Cant get my head round how weak Putin and his regime is now. Hes gone from Stalin to John Major in 24 hours. You have to wonder what sort of mutterings is going on among the top brass - many of whom will deeply resent the humiliations that Prigozhin has been allowed to heap on them and how the way they have carried the can for the disastrous counduct of the war. It very much looks like anyone who can assemble a coherent armed force can topple the regime and sieze power - and Wagner are no longer there to prevent it happening.
Then you have the junior officers and rank and file who have endured nearly 18 months of bloody faliure, have no trust in their commanders and have just witnessed the complete inability of the regime to stop a mutiny. What would happen if a Russian units refused to fight and/or marched back home ? Who would stop them? How many might join them? Again - Wagner are no longer there to act as internal secutiry (think I read somewhere that Wagner units were among those who were shooting any grunts who retreated).
What of the Russian population? Not just the anti-war movment - but the ordianry russians who may have passively supported the war but must now be fully aware that it is failing at huge cost in lives and has been run by deceitful incompetants. And they have just witnessed their Government fail to stop an armed insurrection and pardon its dangerous - and possibly unhinged - leader after he went to war with the russian state for 24 hours. They witnessed Putin flee the capital and issue a furious denunciation on the trecherous terrorists - then perform a complete volte face.

Are we are looking at the political equivalent of the Chrnobly reactor at 1.20 am on April 26th 1986 - just waiting for someone to press the button that blows the whole thing to smithereens?

Cant imagine our Vlad is sleeping too easy right now. Or the rest of Russia for that matter.
 
Maybe the fuckup (for Putin) was the decision to go on telly in the first place, saying this was a very serious threat to the State heads will roll etc, the smoothing things over more pragmatic and only looks so strange because of that very public panic.
 
LDC said:
And Prigozhin is, whatever he attempted, a Russian nationalist and loyalist at the end of the day.
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People seemed to have forgotten that yesterday. Rapists and murderers were suddenly the flavour of the month.

Possibly never before have such people been so quickly rehabilitated. Zeros to heroes and back again, all in the space of 24 hours.

Mind you, the people responsible for the Wagner image management also airbrush Azov, so maybe it's understandable.
 
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ska invita said:
As i said last night, all day long now we're going to hear in Britain on all media channels about how Putin is weakened - that is their wish fulfilment and war drive colouring the experience . Theres some truth in that of course....but as I said, theres also factors that make his position stronger - those reasons are self evident: major rival is out the way and neutered, the test of a coup didn't result in either mass uprising on the streets or top brass buckling at the test. Any potential 'traitors' may have outed themselves and will be dealt with no doubt. If regularising irregular forces was seen as an important short term goal it will now happen faster.


he stopped a coup by a hardened parallel army with barely a shot fired and in just a few hours opposition leader is exiled, wagner is as good as disbanded. not what i was expecting the day to end like yesterday morning. who's going to try a coup next after that?
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Unlike your posts on the war and this event, totally unaffected by your anti-militarism and left wing politics?

Your other post on experts and the media is quite close to, and illustrates how some on the left fall into conspiracy theories, I think. A position where mistrust and dislike of the media leads to rejecting it wholesale rather than understanding its bias and being able to still get information from it that's useful.
 
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RD2003 said:
People seemed to have forgotten that yesterday. Rapists and murderers were suddenly the flavour of the month.

Possibly never before have such people been so quickly rehabilitated. Zeros to heroes and back again, all in the space of 24 hours.
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please show me a single post where anyone said anything remotely supportive of Prigozhin or Wagner? The fact that he and his mob are brtual muderous war cirminals is a given - not just here be right accross nearly all the media coverage. I also note that upthread you were sneering at people for supposedly getting a "hard on" at the thought of putins regimes collapsing and the possible end of the war. Yeah - cos Putin surviving and the war grinding on is a good thing is it? (although not as good as ukraine surrendering obviously .. )
 
RD2003 said:
People seemed to have forgotten that yesterday. Rapists and murderers were suddenly the flavour of the month.

Possibly never before have such people been so quickly rehabilitated. Zeros to heroes and back again, all in the space of 24 hours.

Mind you, the people responsible for the Wagner image management also airbrush Azov, so maybe it's understandable.
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You don't half come out with some predictable shit. Nobody that I read or heard thought Wagner were suddenly great and had forgotten all they'd done.
 
Kaka Tim said:
please show me a single post where anyone said anything remotely supportive of Prigozhin or Wagner? The fact that he and his mob are brtual muderous war cirminals is a given - not just here be right accross nearly all the media coverage. I also note that upthread you were sneering at people for supposedly getting a "hard on" at the thought of putins regimes collapsing and the possible end of the war. Yeah - cos Putin surviving and the war grinding on is a good thing is it? (although not as good as ukraine surrendering obviously .. )
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It wasn't in what was actually said.
 
bimble said:
Would be nice if the thread resisted RDT2’s efforts to make it about him his unique insights into the destiny of nations and so on.
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cant we just cut to the chase and ban the sneering putinite from this thread as well as all the others he shat all over?
 
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Kaka Tim said:
please show me a single post where anyone said anything remotely supportive of Prigozhin or Wagner? The fact that he and his mob are brtual muderous war cirminals is a given - not just here be right accross nearly all the media coverage. I also note that upthread you were sneering at people for supposedly getting a "hard on" at the thought of putins regimes collapsing and the possible end of the war. Yeah - cos Putin surviving and the war grinding on is a good thing is it? (although not as good as ukraine surrendering obviously .. )
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And you show me where I said Putin or the war are good things.
 
Some people seem to have woken up in a bit of a bad mood today. Can't think why. It's a lovely, sunny day outside.
 
RD2003 said:
And you show me where I said Putin or the war are good things.
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I don't think you've said those things.

But just as a heads-up, every single one of your posts comes across as a cynical old man lecturing everyone about how we're all stupid (and really secret pro-NATO warmongers) and you're really wise and clever, a proper old school lefty, and understand the complicated world unlike the rest of us dullards.

Every single post of yours is a sneering variation on that theme and it's fucking dull. You might not mean it to be, but ffs, give up lecturing us from your worldly-wise know-it-all pulpit, it ruins threads all over the place.
 
I mean you've got some insights, but ffs think of the delivery a little more rather than just the content.
 
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