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The 2023 Russian Coup.

Combustible said:
I think that the Russian population as a whole is rather politically cynical, and will understand exactly why Putin would go from threatening annihilation to letting them off if they pack it in. I am also sure they are accustomed to the idea that elites can seemingly get away with things that for mere mortals would end badly. If anything the talk of civil war surely gives further justification for Putin settling the matter peacefully and letting Prigozhin leave.
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No population on earth could go through what Russians did from the mid-1980s to the end of the '90s and not become politically cynical.
 
Kaka Tim said:
Cant get my head round how weak Putin and his regime is now. Hes gone from Stalin to John Major in 24 hours. You have to wonder what sort of mutterings is going on among the top brass - many of whom will deeply resent the humiliations that Prigozhin has been allowed to heap on them and how the way they have carried the can for the disastrous counduct of the war. It very much looks like anyone who can assemble a coherent armed force can topple the regime and sieze power - and Wagner are no longer there to prevent it happening.
Then you have the junior officers and rank and file who have endured nearly 18 months of bloody faliure, have no trust in their commanders and have just witnessed the complete inability of the regime to stop a mutiny. What would happen if a Russian units refused to fight and/or marched back home ? Who would stop them? How many might join them? Again - Wagner are no longer there to act as internal secutiry (think I read somewhere that Wagner units were among those who were shooting any grunts who retreated).
What of the Russian population? Not just the anti-war movment - but the ordianry russians who may have passively supported the war but must now be fully aware that it is failing at huge cost in lives and has been run by deceitful incompetants. And they have just witnessed their Government fail to stop an armed insurrection and pardon its dangerous - and possibly unhinged - leader after he went to war with the russian state for 24 hours. They witnessed Putin flee the capital and issue a furious denunciation on the trecherous terrorists - then perform a complete volte face.

Are we are looking at the political equivalent of the Chrnobly reactor at 1.20 am on April 26th 1986 - just waiting for someone to press the button that blows the whole thing to smithereens?

Cant imagine our Vlad is sleeping too easy right now. Or the rest of Russia for that matter.
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I've just dived in on this thread on page 24 and even without reading the first 23 pages, I can guarantee every bit of this is true.
 
maomao said:
I read it, I just didn't agree with it. Vlad has repulsed the most serious threat possible short of a full army mutiny by having a couple of his mates talk Prigozhin down. It's been made clear that a rebellion during a border war is an existential threat to Russia and whoever repeats it will be an enemy of Russia (rather than of Vlad specifically). There are definitely some awkward aspects for Vlad but there has been no weakening of the structures holding him in place and his most vocal internal critic has been pushed aside. In fact it's probably allowed for some detailed rehearsal of how to cope if it did happen again and possibly flushed out a few rebels too. Prigozhin was the nearest thing Putin had to a rival, who's left?
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Well anyone with access to any sort of meaningful military force for a start. Who knows what is going through the minds of the military top brass right now? - but I doubt its "Vlad has pulled a blinder again!" -
 
And only yesterday there were people on the pitch. They thought it was all over...


Putin has appeared on state TV and renewed commitment to "special military operation"​

President Vladimir Putin has appeared on Russian state TV for the first time since the armed rebellion threatened to topple his regime.

Putin renewed his commitment to the war in Ukraine, calling the “special military operation” his top priority.

According to Reuters, he said “I start and end my day with this”
 
Kaka Tim said:
I will repost this as I think it got missed earlier -


Cant get my head round how weak Putin and his regime is now. Hes gone from Stalin to John Major in 24 hours. You have to wonder what sort of mutterings is going on among the top brass - many of whom will deeply resent the humiliations that Prigozhin has been allowed to heap on them and how the way they have carried the can for the disastrous counduct of the war. It very much looks like anyone who can assemble a coherent armed force can topple the regime and sieze power - and Wagner are no longer there to prevent it happening.
Then you have the junior officers and rank and file who have endured nearly 18 months of bloody faliure, have no trust in their commanders and have just witnessed the complete inability of the regime to stop a mutiny. What would happen if a Russian units refused to fight and/or marched back home ? Who would stop them? How many might join them? Again - Wagner are no longer there to act as internal secutiry (think I read somewhere that Wagner units were among those who were shooting any grunts who retreated).
What of the Russian population? Not just the anti-war movment - but the ordianry russians who may have passively supported the war but must now be fully aware that it is failing at huge cost in lives and has been run by deceitful incompetants. And they have just witnessed their Government fail to stop an armed insurrection and pardon its dangerous - and possibly unhinged - leader after he went to war with the russian state for 24 hours. They witnessed Putin flee the capital and issue a furious denunciation on the trecherous terrorists - then perform a complete volte face.

Are we are looking at the political equivalent of the Chrnobly reactor at 1.20 am on April 26th 1986 - just waiting for someone to press the button that blows the whole thing to smithereens?

Cant imagine our Vlad is sleeping too easy right now. Or the rest of Russia for that matter.
Click to expand...
It didn't get missed
 
Kaka Tim said:
Well anyone with access to any sort of meaningful military force for a start. Who knows what is going through the minds of the military top brass right now? - but I doubt its "Vlad has pulled a blinder again!" -
Click to expand...
It's quite possibly "will I get pulled in to see the big boss who'll want to know why I didn't stand up to be counted"
 
LDC said:
I don't think you've said those things.

But just as a heads-up, every single one of your posts comes across as a cynical old man lecturing everyone about how we're all stupid (and really secret pro-NATO warmongers) and you're really wise and clever, a proper old school lefty, and understand the complicated world unlike the rest of us dullards.

Every single post of yours is a sneering variation on that theme and it's fucking dull. You might not mean it to be, but ffs, give up lecturing us from your worldly-wise know-it-all pulpit, it ruins threads all over the place.
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RD2003 said:
'What I am is what I am, and what I am is what...'
Click to expand...
Must do better 5/10
 
RD2003 said:
And only yesterday there were people on the pitch. They thought it was all over...


Putin has appeared on state TV and renewed commitment to "special military operation"​

President Vladimir Putin has appeared on Russian state TV for the first time since the armed rebellion threatened to topple his regime.

Putin renewed his commitment to the war in Ukraine, calling the “special military operation” his top priority.

According to Reuters, he said “I start and end my day with this”
Click to expand...
Slight cock up on the catering front
 
RD2003 said:
And only yesterday there were people on the pitch. They thought it was all over...

​

Click to expand...

who thought that? Anyway you seem pretty happy it wasnt. you are literally crowing over the fact that Putin is (perhaps) still in charge cos a. it makes you feel superior over people who were specualting that the coup might push him out and/or b. you're one of his fan boys. Seriously - what the fuck is going on with you?
 
gosub said:
What sport is it they give points for suppressing your own support crew?
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Nearest analogy I can think of is when Roberto Mancini fucked Carlos Tevez off back to Argentina after he refused to go on as sub against Bayern. However, he came back later in the season and played a heroic role in City's first PL title win.

Who knows where Prighozin might be deployed after he finishes an extended golfing holiday? Could be midfield, could be leading the forward line. The lad has proved he can play anywhere
 
Kaka Tim said:
who thought that? Anyway you seem pretty happy it wasnt. you are literally crowing over the fact that Putin is (perhaps) still in charge cos a. it makes you feel superior over people who were specualting that the coup might push him out and/or b. you're one of his fan boys. Seriously - what the fuck is going on with you?
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It isn't about the war, it's about who says what on here.
 
RD2003 said:
Nearest analogy I can think of is when Roberto Mancini fucked Carlos Tevez off back to Argentina after he refused to go on as sub against Bayern. However, he came back later in the season and played a heroic role in City's first PL title win.

Who knows where Prighozin might be deployed after he finishes an extended golfing holiday? Could be midfield, could be leading the forward line. The lad has proved he can play anywhere
Click to expand...
If. I was him I'd avoid playing at altitude for a while
 
LDC said:
What's that comedy war film where the people have a variety of flags to string up depending on what occupying/liberating forces are passing down their streets?
Click to expand...
Hotel Sahara. Peter Ustinov played the part of the hapless owner of a hotel in North Africa as the armies swept to and fro and he had to keep changing a portrait on the wall between Il Duce, Adolf Hitler, and Winston Churchill. I vaguely remember him making a hilarious mistake when the Americans came through.
 
RD2003 said:
And only yesterday there were people on the pitch. They thought it was all over...


Putin has appeared on state TV and renewed commitment to "special military operation"​

President Vladimir Putin has appeared on Russian state TV for the first time since the armed rebellion threatened to topple his regime.

Putin renewed his commitment to the war in Ukraine, calling the “special military operation” his top priority.

According to Reuters, he said “I start and end my day with this”
Click to expand...

Possibly recorded on Wednesday.
 
Kaka Tim said:
I will repost this as I think it got missed earlier -


Cant get my head round how weak Putin and his regime is now. Hes gone from Stalin to John Major in 24 hours. You have to wonder what sort of mutterings is going on among the top brass - many of whom will deeply resent the humiliations that Prigozhin has been allowed to heap on them and how the way they have carried the can for the disastrous counduct of the war. It very much looks like anyone who can assemble a coherent armed force can topple the regime and sieze power - and Wagner are no longer there to prevent it happening.
Then you have the junior officers and rank and file who have endured nearly 18 months of bloody faliure, have no trust in their commanders and have just witnessed the complete inability of the regime to stop a mutiny. What would happen if a Russian units refused to fight and/or marched back home ? Who would stop them? How many might join them? Again - Wagner are no longer there to act as internal secutiry (think I read somewhere that Wagner units were among those who were shooting any grunts who retreated).
What of the Russian population? Not just the anti-war movment - but the ordianry russians who may have passively supported the war but must now be fully aware that it is failing at huge cost in lives and has been run by deceitful incompetants. And they have just witnessed their Government fail to stop an armed insurrection and pardon its dangerous - and possibly unhinged - leader after he went to war with the russian state for 24 hours. They witnessed Putin flee the capital and issue a furious denunciation on the trecherous terrorists - then perform a complete volte face.

Are we are looking at the political equivalent of the Chrnobly reactor at 1.20 am on April 26th 1986 - just waiting for someone to press the button that blows the whole thing to smithereens?

Cant imagine our Vlad is sleeping too easy right now. Or the rest of Russia for that matter.
Click to expand...
It didn’t get missed earlier.
 
i have an opinion.

prigozhin (sp) has been wauling for ages that he's not getting the support from moscow that he needs/wants/expects.
he has nothing to lose so goes and gets moscow's attention, and how.
he gets safe passage to belarus, for the moment, the non-rebels become regulars, the rebels are in the clear, for the moment, though i don;t know what they're going to do without him.
in other words, prigozhin gets what he wants: out of the entire business, since he can't fight as he think he should be able to; and his soldiers get taken care of or at least not executed, for the moment.

win for prigozhin, for the moment.

i don't think putin looks too weak, maybe part of not arming wagner thoroughly was to show who's the boss, and now putin has prigozhin cashiered, for the moment, and some of his soldiers into putin's ranks.
 
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