The 2011 Census, good or bad?

[moon23]

This years Census is set to be the most intrusive ever. The 1920s Census Act contained just six questions. This years Census will have over 40, and will ask to your state of health and for the names and addresses of anyone staying at your house. The Census will also be shared more widely, with all 27 member states of the EU.
The Census’ history is one full of protest, in the 1800s Census officers needed protection from the police. In the 20th Centaury the Suffragettes boycotted it on mass as a form of protest.

The government has said this will be the last in the current form, as it's widely recognised that the data quickly gets dated and is off little use in planning services.

It’s a criminal offense not to fill out the Census, punishable by a fine of £1,000. Encouraging others not to complete it is incitement to this offense and punishable by the same fine.

Given it’s outdated, bureaucratic, costly and authoritarian why is it still going ahead?

 

[frogwoman]

employment.

 

[moon23]

employment.

What do you mean? It's good because it gives people jobs?

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah

 

[bi0boy]

There's no way I'm filling out mine accurately

 

[bi0boy]

Yeah

LOL

Why not instead get those people to build some towers and knock them down again.

 

[moon23]

LOL

Why not instead get those people to build some towers and knock them down again.

Good idea, we could have full employement. Perhaps though Gerkin & Vodka production would be more worthwhile. Honestly though isn't there better things we could employ people to do. Seeing as so many jobs are being scrapped I can't see how walking around asking a zillion questions is really going to help.

Did you also know that Lockhead Martin are compling the census data?

 

[frogwoman]

I don't really see any harm in it, I also think it's a bit of a waste of time getting upset over stuff like this when far more intrusive information is collected on, for example, benefit claimants, etc, and by private companies every day. it's like people getting upset over cctv cameras and half the time those cameras not having any film in them (and the numbers of them now being reduced anyway).

it's true that the state has become more authoritarian and intrusive in the last few years but there are worse examples of that than the fucking census

a thousand quid fine is a fucking joke tho

 

[Belushi]

The state does have a legitimate need for information on the population of the country for planning; but I agree its a dated method nowadays and the information does become obsolete very quickly.

 

[bi0boy]

I don't really see any harm in it, I also think it's a bit of a waste of time getting upset over stuff like this when far more intrusive information is collected on, for example, benefit claimants, etc, and by private companies every day. it's like people getting upset over cctv cameras and half the time those cameras not having any film in them (and the numbers of them now being reduced anyway).

it's true that the state has become more authoritarian and intrusive in the last few years but there are worse examples of that than the fucking census

a thousand quid fine is a fucking joke tho

If some bloke from down the street you'd never seen before came round and asked what your sexuality was so he could write it down and keep it home for a few days before posting it to the government, would you tell him?

 

[stethoscope]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Lib Dems were possibly in favour of scrapping the census but using private company Experian instead for their data collection? I think I'd rather have the census.

 

[moon23]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Lib Dems were possibly in favour of scrapping the census but using private company Experian instead for their data collection? I think I'd rather have the census.

Eric Pickles said whist in opposition there was growing public concern over "the increasingly intrusive questions that the government is planning for the next census".

He added: "Many councils have been short-changed in government funding because the last census failed to record properly the real number of local residents.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7573004.stm

 

[butchersapron]

Eric Pickles said whist in opposition there was growing public concern over "the increasingly intrusive questions that the government is planning for the next census".

He added: "Many councils have been short-changed in government funding because the last census failed to record properly the real number of local residents.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7573004.stm

Nice to see you can no longer tell the difference between tory MPs and lib-dem ones.

 

[trevhagl]

What do you mean? It's good because it gives people jobs?

that's probably the ONLY good thing to come from it. Why would they need to know that shit?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Did you also know that Lockhead Martin are compling the census data?

It's not really any different from HP or IBM or Siemens doing it. LM do enormous amounts of civil government IT in the US.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

It's harmless imo.

 

[geminisnake]

There's no way I'm filling out mine accurately

I'm not sure I ever have!

 

[bi0boy]

I'm tempted to put "militant islam" for my religion and see if that gets leaked to the police.

 

[_angel_]

How come I have never filled one of these out before??

 

[The39thStep]

I don't really see the census as some state sponsored attack on my civil liberties to be quite honest.

 

[temper_tantrum]

I'd be very interested to hear about alternative sampling methodologies, does anyone know any more about what the government are proposing to replace the census with?

 

[moon23]

It's not really any different from HP or IBM or Siemens doing it. LM do enormous amounts of civil government IT in the US.

Under the patriot act, any US company has to hand over data or information to the US government if they request it. Not saying Lockhead Martin are better than IBM, Siemens or any other large coroporate IT outfit.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I'd be very interested to hear about alternative sampling methodologies, does anyone know any more about what the government are proposing to replace the census with?

An opt-in online thing would suit the current d of t, and would have the added benefit of proving that there are only 15m or so people in the UK, all reasonably well off, meaning that public services are absurdly overfunded.

 

[stavros]

On one hand I don't really like to be labelled within the narrow variables of the census, but then I get kind of fascinated by the demographical statistics that it produces.

 

[temper_tantrum]

An opt-in online thing

Doesn't that pose numerous issues in terms of sampling bias though?

(what's 'd of t' ?)

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Well yes, quite.

Direction of travel. The policy makers favourite phrase of 2009, filtered into general public service management speak early 2010 and now used widely at grunt level.

 

[StoneRoad]

The census is a "snaphot" - data from a point in time.

It is useful as a benchmark, and for all sorts of research. The fact that the data is confidential for 100 years is a good point to remember, as that makes it very useful for family and social history research - you may remember that when the last one came out of the 100 year silence, attempts to access the data crashed the server(s)!

 

[free spirit]

The census is a "snaphot" - data from a point in time.

It is useful as a benchmark, and for all sorts of research. The fact that the data is confidential for 100 years is a good point to remember, as that makes it very useful for family and social history research - you may remember that when the last one came out of the 100 year silence, attempts to access the data crashed the server(s)!

this.

It may be flawed, but the long unbroken history of 10 year censuses in this country isn't something that should be chucked away arbitrarily, and I've not seen a better way of working out how to target resources etc (although they ought to verify census data with other sources a bit more and adjust accordingly)

 

[frogwoman]

The census is a "snaphot" - data from a point in time.

It is useful as a benchmark, and for all sorts of research. The fact that the data is confidential for 100 years is a good point to remember, as that makes it very useful for family and social history research - you may remember that when the last one came out of the 100 year silence, attempts to access the data crashed the server(s)!

exactly!

 

[ernestolynch]

Are liberals 'up in arms' about the census now? Why?