Tax return blues - would a bit of solidarity help?

[friendofdorothy]

What will it mean for people like me then? Will I have to buy my own software or get an accountant?
I have had no information about it other than what I have seen on this thread, so I can imagine it would have been a bit of a surprise (and therefore the aforementioned clusterfuck) to quite a lot of self employed people.

The only benefits anything could bring to me would be to simplify the current form, make more of it automatic, easier to understand and integrate the payment element better.

Me too, I've only heard about it here too.

I've used an accountant for years because I was scared of doing my own return online or otherwise. Now I don't have much income I had hoped to do the online return without an accountant next year. But MTD sounds like the stuff of nightmares!

I'm not good with 'apps', sharing files online and don't have a smart phone. Only a laptop, a really shit scanner and an old version of Excel. Like many older people from a less techie century I dread have to buy and learn any new software.

 

[friendofdorothy]

You will need MTD compliant software of some kind. There are numerous packages out there from bridging software (which takes your data from a spreadsheet) through to fully functional bookkeeping and accounts software. You won't necessarily need an accountant.

There have been advertising campaigns across all media from both HMRC and software providers for several years. I first mentioned it on this thread back in February 2018. Admittedly the software providers have been most active as they see a massive opportunity to make money from it.

In simple terms, you will need to record your bookkeeping in electronic form from the source documentation. You will need to submit quarterly Returns to HMRC directly from within the software and then submit a final (fifth Return) to add in any year end adjustments for your accounts. The fifth Return will also include other tax related information which isn't part of your self-employment/rental income such as bank interest, dividends etc.

Not seen much advertising. The very idea scares the shit out of me! Sounds like a huge learning curve, and expensive.

Is anyone running courses to teach this stuff?

 

[friendofdorothy]

'The digital tax system has been delayed for the self-employed and landlords for a further two years, according to a government announcement on 19 December 2022. Self Assessment tax payers were due to use Making Tax Digital from April 2024. The phased approach is now coming in from April 2026.'

Phew!

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I hope it's been put back because they didn't think it through. It's a complete pain in the arse for freelancers like me and friendofdorothy.
My taxes are usually fairly simple, I don't need an accountant to type in the amounts on the bottom of six invoices. Last time I looked into the digital thing (prompted by this thread) it seemed like I had to research what software to use and there was no guarantee that any of it would integrate correctly. If they are going to do this they really need a basic platform that the HMRC provide and it probably needs to be cloud based? I'm fine with storing files on my computers, but if I need a future proof app that I need to purchase myself and learn, to to commit to relinquishing all my control to an accountant I think it's going to bugger me up.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

You will need MTD compliant software of some kind. There are numerous packages out there from bridging software (which takes your data from a spreadsheet) through to fully functional bookkeeping and accounts software. You won't necessarily need an accountant.

The first sentence is already making this a pain in the arse. I don't know what MTD means. I don't have spreadsheets, never had. I don't know what bridging software is and I would imaging book keeping software will be overkill. . . as will the need for an accountant.

I get about six jobs a year of various lengths. I invoice for them all and keep the records, but for the purposes of submitting my returns I just add them all up and submit the total to HMRC. My expenses are minimal, but I just keep a record of them and take that away from the total.
Any sofware, spreadsheets etc (and submitting five flipping returns a year???) seems like overkill.

There have been advertising campaigns across all media from both HMRC and software providers for several years.

If there has been then I have not seen it. If it was something that was supposed to be implemented this year then they have done a pretty bad job at getting the info out. . . . or I would know about it.

In simple terms, you will need to record your bookkeeping in electronic form from the source documentation.

I don't even know what this actually means. Just type in the amount I earned into the software?

You will need to submit quarterly Returns to HMRC directly from within the software and then submit a final (fifth Return) to add in any year end adjustments for your accounts. The fifth Return will also include other tax related information which isn't part of your self-employment/rental income such as bank interest, dividends etc.

Personally for me this sounds like it is just going to be a massive load of extra time consuming stuff for me to learn and do. Hopefully whatever software is eventually recommended talks me through this in a very simple fashion. . . . the biggest problem for me at the moment is simply that I am absolutely clueless about it. This thread is all I have heard. . . so for that fact alone, I can only imagine it would have been an absolute disaster had it started this year.

 

[Leafster]

Not seen much advertising. The very idea scares the shit out of me! Sounds like a huge learning curve, and expensive.

Is anyone running courses to teach this stuff?

I guess, being an Accountant, I have noticed the advertising more than most. When they were planning on introducing Making Tax Digital for VAT I got fed up with seeing and hearing adverts for it everywhere - TV, radio and even bus stops! Whilst typing this post there has been an advert on the radio from Intuit (Quickbooks) about the benefit of using their software for Making Tax Digital for VAT and self-assessment.

The software providers have slowly modified the campaigns to include Making Tax Digital for Income Tax and possibly, if people originally 'tuned out' from noticing the adverts as they originally related to VAT, they haven't noticed the subtle changes.

The first sentence is already making this a pain in the arse. I don't know what MTD means. I don't have spreadsheets, never had. I don't know what bridging software is and I would imaging book keeping software will be overkill. . . as will the need for an accountant.

I get about six jobs a year of various lengths. I invoice for them all and keep the records, but for the purposes of submitting my returns I just add them all up and submit the total to HMRC. My expenses are minimal, but I just keep a record of them and take that away from the total.
Any sofware, spreadsheets etc (and submitting five flipping returns a year???) seems like overkill.

If there has been then I have not seen it. If it was something that was supposed to be implemented this year then they have done a pretty bad job at getting the info out. . . . or I would know about it.

I don't even know what this actually means. Just type in the amount I earned into the software?

Personally for me this sounds like it is just going to be a massive load of extra time consuming stuff for me to learn and do. Hopefully whatever software is eventually recommended talks me through this in a very simple fashion. . . . the biggest problem for me at the moment is simply that I am absolutely clueless about it. This thread is all I have heard. . . so for that fact alone, I can only imagine it would have been an absolute disaster had it started this year.

MTD is short for Making Tax Digital. As I've said elsewhere HMRC don't trust tax payers to use calculators or transcribe figures from one piece of paper to another or to copy these onto a webpage. They want to digitise the whole process so that, as they see it, less mistakes are made.

Bridging software is software that takes information from one electronic form (a spreadsheet, bookkeeping software, etc.) and converts it into a form which is compatible with HMRC's needs. The bridging software then transmits this information over the internet to an electronic gateway set up by HMRC.

Most of the major players in the bookkeeping software market (Sage, Xero, Intuit (Quickbooks) etc., have incorporated routines within their software to transmit this information to HMRC directly rather than needing additional bridging software.

Keeping your data in electronic form just means that you have to record each individual transaction (a payment, a receipt, a sales invoice, a purchase invoice etc.) separately in a spreadsheet or bookkeeping software. It's HMRC's misguided belief that everyone who is self-employed or a landlord has a dedicated bank account they use and therefore all the transactions in that account in a year represent their income and expenditure. I certainly deal with self-employed traders and landlords who don't have dedicated bank accounts. But the idea is that all the transactions from the dedicated bank account are the basis for creating the information to be submitted to HMRC via Making Tax Digital.

Just to clarify, Making Tax Digital doesn't mean HMRC will see every transaction. What it means is that the MTD compliant software summarises the individual transactions to produce the figures which you would have entered via your HMRC tax account.

It is a big change for many taxpayers. Those already using software or an accountant will have less to learn but anyone who hasn't will have a steeper learning curve. One of the issues is that HMRC has effectively privatised the production and submission of this information to them by saying everyone must use MTD compliant software of some sort and not enter it via their tax account.

Taxpayers will be reliant on the support of the software companies (or their accountants) to help them enter the information. I've used Xero and FreeAgent for Making Tax Digital for VAT and the online tutorials weren't bad although, as an accountant I (hopefully!) have a better grasp of the underlying concepts. It's effectively the same software that has been modified for MTD for VAT which will be further modified to cope with MTD for Income Tax.

Another thing I should add is that the original rules stated that any self-employed trader or landlord with a turnover of more than £10,000 would need to comply with MTD for Income Tax but as part of the announcement delaying the introduction they've also increased the thresholds so that any self-employed trader or landlord with income of more than £50,000 will need to comply with MTD for Income Tax from April 2026 and those with income of more than £30,000 will need to comply with MTD for Income Tax from April 2027. Perhaps it will apply to those below these thresholds at a later date.

So, for smaller earners there's no need to panic as there's plenty of time start planning and it's possible that for those with a turnover less than that £10,000 it might never apply.

 

[Chilli.s]

This digital idea from hmrc, im assuming it will make all my computer and internet expenses into a running cost that will be born by my pathetic self employed business?

 

[Leafster]

This digital idea from hmrc, im assuming it will make all my computer and internet expenses into a running cost that will be born by my pathetic self employed business?

There's certainly a stronger argument to say a bigger proportion of those costs relate to your business and should therefore be deducted from your profit!

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I guess, being an Accountant, I have noticed the advertising more than most. When they were planning on introducing Making Tax Digital for VAT I got fed up with seeing and hearing adverts for it everywhere - TV, radio and even bus stops! Whilst typing this post there has been an advert on the radio from Intuit (Quickbooks) about the benefit of using their software for Making Tax Digital for VAT and self-assessment.

I've not heard a peep. I don't listen to the radio and rarely watch tv. I would have thought that the HMRC would have been in touch for such a radical change.

It's so irritating. I simply don't need the hassle of learning and filling out a spread sheet five times a year.

 

[teuchter]

Like ATOMIC SUPLEX I'm self employed and my income & expenses are relatively simple. And so far have got away with not paying an accountant to do my returns.

But I wouldn't necessarily mind being forced to do things in a more integrated way, if it worked and didn't require the purchase of expensive software.

At the moment I do invoices using my own home-made spreadsheets.

Then I do very basic "accounts" on another spreadsheet.

Then I use that info to fill in the tax return.

Numbers are transferred manually between each of those three steps.

It would save a lot of manual tedium if I had one software that generated invoices, and formatted accounts, and just shoved the relevant info straight to my tax return.

Problem for small self employed operations is that you often find software is designed for and priced for bigger companies, who have more complex needs and can spread the cost over multiple people.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

My other worry is that work has REALLY slowed down for me since a post covid boom. I really won't be able to justify an accountant. Because of the teuchter post above I've realised I don't even put down all my invoices and expenses together on anything much more than a hand written sum on bit of paper. I just keep a load of dated invoice folders on file.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Like ATOMIC SUPLEX I'm self employed and my income & expenses are relatively simple. And so far have got away with not paying an accountant to do my returns.

But I wouldn't necessarily mind being forced to do things in a more integrated way, if it worked and didn't require the purchase of expensive software.

At the moment I do invoices using my own home-made spreadsheets.

Then I do very basic "accounts" on another spreadsheet.

Then I use that info to fill in the tax return.

Numbers are transferred manually between each of those three steps.

It would save a lot of manual tedium if I had one software that generated invoices, and formatted accounts, and just shoved the relevant info straight to my tax return.

Problem for small self employed operations is that you often find software is designed for and priced for bigger companies, who have more complex needs and can spread the cost over multiple people.

Yeah when I was freelancing most packages seemed way more complex then I wanted or needed for someone who basically sold their labour by the day and has some expenses.

My spreadsheets were pretty basic, but worked.

 

[frogwoman]

I beleive some accountants have been testing the "Making Tax Digital" system, and yes, it's a clusterfuck. The goverment has probably realised this, and decided they don't need to preside over another disaster.

Making Tax Digital is different from doing your tax return online though. Most people have been doing that for years.

I have to submit a paper tax return as my account won't let me log in due to having a previous account with them which doesn't work and it always messing up the passwords. Their website doesn't work at all

 

[skyscraper101]

How is it not digital already though? Everything I do is via the HMRC website? There's no 'paper' involved?

 

[Leafster]

How is it not digital already though? Everything I do is via the HMRC website? There's no 'paper' involved?

The intention is for the whole process from capturing the data in your bookkeeping software through to submission of the final results to be digital with very little human intervention.

At the moment, you could keep a carrier bag of paperwork and then summarise all this on the back of a couple of envelopes, add up the totals and then input those summarised results onto HMRC's website. HMRC don't like that as they think it's prone to errors. The reality is that if you've just got 12 sales invoices and a handful of expenses you're just as likely to end up with the right result as if you had software you paid £50 a month for.

However, if you've raised hundreds sales invoices in the year and have hundreds of expense invoices and you're VAT registered, you're probably best using software to keep track of it all properly.

The idea is to capture the data as soon as it's created so;

• you'd create your sales invoices in the MTD compliant software. Or in the case of retail sales, you'd link your till system to the MTD compliant software so it automatically transfers the figures
• you'd link your bank account to the MTD compliant software so it automatically imported each transaction
• you'd match the sales invoices to the transactions imported from your bank account
• you'd match your expense receipts to the transactions imported from your bank account

The software does all the adding up and there's no need to transfer any numbers manually from a piece of paper or another software package into the data which forms the submission to HMRC. As HMRC see it, this minimises the risk of errors. However, it doesn't deal with errors where a trader accidentally analyses something incorrectly or includes something which isn't a business expense or treats income as not taxable. It also doesn't take into account that the software and electronic links to other data sources can fail. For instance, the process of obtaining the bank transactions, known as a bank feed, can fail to import some transactions or report some transactions twice. It would be up to the trader to be vigilant enough to review this and correct the mistakes.

In theory it could work perfectly but in practice there's always a few problems.

I would say that some of the software out there does a very good job and as an accountant I've found Xero to be my preferred software. It works well, has good online support, is well featured and does save me time dealing with clients' bookkeeping. My clients seem to like it too. However, at its cheapest, it's £14 plus VAT per month to non-accountants.

I have also used FreeAgent. It's not as good but for those who have their primary bank account with NatWest, RBS, Ulster Bank or Mettle it is free! For everyone else the cheapest version for non-accountants is £19 plus VAT per month. If you have to pay that then I'd choose Xero.

Both Xero and FreeAgent are cloud-based solutions.

In the past I have experience of using Quickbooks desktop software. But, in my opinion, it's too easy to make mistakes. At least, that's what I've found reviewing the data from clients who've used Quickbooks. Their online product Quickbooks Self-Employed is just crap so avoid it. Their more feature-rich online products maybe better but I haven't tried them and are more expensive.

I've not taken part in HMRC's pilot scheme for MTD for Income Tax so don't have any experience of using the software for that but all three of them claim to be MTD for Income Tax compliant.

There are plenty of other software providers which are supposedly MTD for Income Tax compliant including Sage but I haven't had time to try them out so can't comment.

Having said all that, the deadline for needing to be MTD for Income Tax compliant is still some time away and there's plenty of time for other software suppliers to produce useful and cheaper alternatives.

ETA: with most of the software available you can try it out for free for a while so I'd suggest trying out two or three packages to see which one suits you. For instance, one client chose Quickbooks SE as it had a built in car mileage calculator and that was important to them.

 

[frogwoman]

I can't log in to the website, have never been able to since having to make another self employment registration several years ago and it always giving me the wrong passwords etc. I therefore had to pay over the phone and file a paper return

 

[Leafster]

I can't log in to the website, have never been able to since having to make another self employment registration several years ago and it always giving me the wrong passwords etc. I therefore had to pay over the phone and file a paper return

Sorry to hear this. I can't say I've ever had to help a client with something like you're experiencing. It sounds as though they didn't reactivate your old account. Did you get a different Unique Taxpayer Reference when you re-registered?

I'd suggest collating all the information you have from both registrations and calling HMRC's Technical Support Helpline to explain the problem. Be prepared for a long wait though, especially this time of year.

Technical support with HMRC online services

Contact HMRC with technical problems when using HMRC systems, sending forms online, error messages and using HMRC free software and tools

www.gov.uk

 

[frogwoman]

Sorry to hear this. I can't say I've ever had to help a client with something like you're experiencing. It sounds as though they didn't reactivate your old account. Did you get a different Unique Taxpayer Reference when you re-registered?

I'd suggest collating all the information you have from both registrations and calling HMRC's Technical Support Helpline to explain the problem. Be prepared for a long wait though, especially this time of year.

Technical support with HMRC online services

Contact HMRC with technical problems when using HMRC systems, sending forms online, error messages and using HMRC free software and tools

www.gov.uk

When i request a new password it sends it to me but then just says the password is incorrect and locks me out. I can't log in at all, although I can to student loan stuff.

 

[frogwoman]

No they didn't reactivate it

 

[prunus]

The intention is for the whole process from capturing the data in your bookkeeping software through to submission of the final results to be digital with very little human intervention.

At the moment, you could keep a carrier bag of paperwork and then summarise all this on the back of a couple of envelopes, add up the totals and then input those summarised results onto HMRC's website. HMRC don't like that as they think it's prone to errors. The reality is that if you've just got 12 sales invoices and a handful of expenses you're just as likely to end up with the right result as if you had software you paid £50 a month for.

However, if you've raised hundreds sales invoices in the year and have hundreds of expense invoices and you're VAT registered, you're probably best using software to keep track of it all properly.

The idea is to capture the data as soon as it's created so;

• you'd create your sales invoices in the MTD compliant software. Or in the case of retail sales, you'd link your till system to the MTD compliant software so it automatically transfers the figures
• you'd link your bank account to the MTD compliant software so it automatically imported each transaction
• you'd match the sales invoices to the transactions imported from your bank account
• you'd match your expense receipts to the transactions imported from your bank account

The software does all the adding up and there's no need to transfer any numbers manually from a piece of paper or another software package into the data which forms the submission to HMRC. As HMRC see it, this minimises the risk of errors. However, it doesn't deal with errors where a trader accidentally analyses something incorrectly or includes something which isn't a business expense or treats income as not taxable. It also doesn't take into account that the software and electronic links to other data sources can fail. For instance, the process of obtaining the bank transactions, known as a bank feed, can fail to import some transactions or report some transactions twice. It would be up to the trader to be vigilant enough to review this and correct the mistakes.

In theory it could work perfectly but in practice there's always a few problems.

I would say that some of the software out there does a very good job and as an accountant I've found Xero to be my preferred software. It works well, has good online support, is well featured and does save me time dealing with clients' bookkeeping. My clients seem to like it too. However, at its cheapest, it's £14 plus VAT per month to non-accountants.

I have also used FreeAgent. It's not as good but for those who have their primary bank account with NatWest, RBS, Ulster Bank or Mettle it is free! For everyone else the cheapest version for non-accountants is £19 plus VAT per month. If you have to pay that then I'd choose Xero.

Both Xero and FreeAgent are cloud-based solutions.

In the past I have experience of using Quickbooks desktop software. But, in my opinion, it's too easy to make mistakes. At least, that's what I've found reviewing the data from clients who've used Quickbooks. Their online product Quickbooks Self-Employed is just crap so avoid it. Their more feature-rich online products maybe better but I haven't tried them and are more expensive.

I've not taken part in HMRC's pilot scheme for MTD for Income Tax so don't have any experience of using the software for that but all three of them claim to be MTD for Income Tax compliant.

There are plenty of other software providers which are supposedly MTD for Income Tax compliant including Sage but I haven't had time to try them out so can't comment.

Having said all that, the deadline for needing to be MTD for Income Tax compliant is still some time away and there's plenty of time for other software suppliers to produce useful and cheaper alternatives.

ETA: with most of the software available you can try it out for free for a while so I'd suggest trying out two or three packages to see which one suits you. For instance, one client chose Quickbooks SE as it had a built in car mileage calculator and that was important to them.

Thanks, that’s a very helpful summary of the intent and process. Regarding the import of bank accounts for reconciliation, any idea about cash? I still get some small jobs paid in cash, and pay for some expenses with it. There isn’t going to be a requirement to deposit everything in the bank is there…?

 

[Leafster]

When i request a new password it sends it to me but then just says the password is incorrect and locks me out. I can't log in at all, although I can to student loan stuff.

Hmmm, do you have more than one Government Gateway IDs?

For various reasons I have several and each one needs a separate password. Only one was to access my HMRC tax account. I seem to remember there was a time where I couldn't log in after I'd accessed a different service via one of the other Government Gateway IDs. I had to clear the cookies on my PC and then it would let me log into the correct service. I don't seem to have that problem now but maybe check the Gateway ID you're using and clear the cookies and see if that lets you log in.

Otherwise, try phoning the helpline number in the link I provided and explain the problem to a person. They may be able to talk you through it so you can access the correct account.

 

[friendofdorothy]

thank you Leafster your explaination has really been helpful. I have seen ads for quickbooks and other software - but that doesnt explain make tax digital.

Both Xero and FreeAgent are cloud-based solutions.

this is the bit I have trouble with - getting my head around cloud based things at all.

Govt wants us all to work till we die - but how are us older people supposed to learn all this tech shit? The amount of stuff that the govt want everyone to do online completely ignores that older / poorer / less literate people simply can't. Where is the tuition, where is the support? where are the step by step govt info booklets?

 

[Leafster]

Thanks, that’s a very helpful summary of the intent and process. Regarding the import of bank accounts for reconciliation, any idea about cash? I still get some small jobs paid in cash, and pay for some expenses with it. There isn’t going to be a requirement to deposit everything in the bank is there…?

I would say that HMRC would want you to bank your cash takings in full and pay all your expenses from your bank account but that's not always going to happen!

There are ways around this but they possibly aren't fully compliant with the principles of MTD.

This is how I get around it with Xero. It may be possible with the other software too.

Create a 'bank account' in Xero for 'cash' transactions.
Using the csv template to import bank transactions when you don't use the bank feeds, populate* this with the cash transactions.
Upload this to the Xero 'Cash' bank account.
Then analyse the 'cash' bank account by matching it to your sales invoices and expense receipts as you would for a normal bank account.

* by populate I mean type the transactions manually into the csv template. See, it isn't exactly compliant with the concepts of MTD but sometimes has to be done!

 

[frogwoman]

Thanks, I will try and get back in but will follow your advice.

 

[prunus]

I would say that HMRC would want you to bank your cash takings in full and pay all your expenses from your bank account but that's not always going to happen!

There are ways around this but they possibly aren't fully compliant with the principles of MTD.

This is how I get around it with Xero. It may be possible with the other software too.

Create a 'bank account' in Xero for 'cash' transactions.
Using the csv template to import bank transactions when you don't use the bank feeds, populate* this with the cash transactions.
Upload this to the Xero 'Cash' bank account.
Then analyse the 'cash' bank account by matching it to your sales invoices and expense receipts as you would for a normal bank account.

* by populate I mean type the transactions manually into the csv template. See, it isn't exactly compliant with the concepts of MTD but sometimes has to be done!

Perfect, thanks.

 

[Leafster]

thank you Leafster your explanation has really been helpful. I have seen ads for quickbooks and other software - but that doesnt explain make tax digital.

Both Xero & FreeAgent are cloud-based solutions

this is the bit I have trouble with - getting my head around cloud based things at all.

Govt wants us all to work till we die - but how are us older people supposed to learn all this tech shit? The amount of stuff that the govt want everyone to do online completely ignores that older / poorer / less literate people simply can't. Where is the tuition, where is the support? where are the step by step govt info booklets?

Think back to when you had dumb computer terminals in offices. They looks like computers but were all connected to a mainframe or mini-computer in the computer room somewhere else. Cloud-based software effectively replicates this by treating your PC, laptop or tablet as an old-fashioned dumb terminal. You type on it but all the software and data is resident on the software suppliers servers instead of on your PC etc.

I agree, the government have effectively transferred all responsibility onto the individual to learn how do things online and won't be providing proper support or viable alternatives * for those who aren't tech savvy.

The government have webpages on Making Tax Digital but since they are effectively requiring the tax payer to use software (or at the very least, a spreadsheet) they are washing their hands of any responsibility to teach the taxpayer how to use it as that's down to the software provider.

* there are or were exemptions from having to comply with MTD for VAT but they only cover religious communities who don't use computers, businesses who operate where there is no viable internet and possibly the extremely old. I don't think that last one has been properly defined and I doubt anyone who posts on here would be able to say they were too old to use a computer.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Think back to when you had dumb computer terminals in offices. They looks like computers but were all connected to a mainframe or mini-computer in the computer room somewhere else. Cloud-based software effectively replicates this by treating your PC, laptop or tablet as an old-fashioned dumb terminal. You type on it but all the software and data is resident on the software suppliers servers instead of on your PC etc.

I agree, the government have effectively transferred all responsibility onto the individual to learn how do things online and won't be providing proper support or viable alternatives * for those who aren't tech savvy.

The government have webpages on Making Tax Digital but since they are effectively requiring the tax payer to use software (or at the very least, a spreadsheet) they are washing their hands of any responsibility to teach the taxpayer how to use it as that's down to the software provider.

* there are or were exemptions from having to comply with MTD for VAT but they only cover religious communities who don't use computers, businesses who operate where there is no viable internet and possibly the extremely old. I don't think that last one has been properly defined and I doubt anyone who posts on here would be able to say they were too old to use a computer.

I understand the principle of the cloud just struggle with the practicalities.

Fucking govt.

 

[iamwithnail]

Very pleased to discover that I’ve way over budgeted for how much tax I needed to pay. Had figured out it’d be a grand difference with the self employed stuff on top of PAYE but having plugged it all in and checked it twice with the accountant, tax is about £100. Excellent.

Eta: I’ve been trying to get to this point rather than scrabbling around trying to pull together cash which is the normal thing cause I’ve under estimated the tax.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm dreading it going online only because I cant get into the website at all and when I enter my details including passport etc it says it doesnt recognise my identity.

 

[Elpenor]

I hadn’t realised how big the changes for MTD were going to be, and the impact on the self-employed - it seems to be the equivalent of RTI for PAYE which was a huge change for the payroll industry.

Good luck everyone!