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SWP expulsions and squabbles

electric.avenue said:
Yes, I think so. As soon as you start talking about "more advanced elements" it's almost as if you are starting to create a new form of class system.
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i worked with a feller who is in the edl and did time for manslaughter, which he admits privately was murder, of a black man. he also claimed he was a member of combat 18. he also grovels in front of any authority, bosses, screws, etc.
also, he reckoned his prison psychiatrist described him as a sexual predator.

i can fairly safely say, most people are more advanced than him.

if you disagree i can pm you his number and you can go camping with the eighteen stone five foot eleven freak.
 
discokermit said:
i worked with a feller who is in the edl and did time for manslaughter, which he admits privately was murder, of a black man. he also claimed he was a member of combat 18. he also grovels in front of any authority, bosses, screws, etc.
also, he reckoned his prison psychiatrist described him as a sexual predator.

i can fairly safely say, most people are more advanced than him.

if you disagree i can pm you his number and you can go camping with the eighteen stone five foot eleven freak.
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Didn't realise you used to be on the CC?
 
But if you think you're part of an advanced layer won't that mean that you might - might - be less likely to reflect on your beliefs and be critical of yourself and those of the party because you'd think you were right anyway?
 
bolshiebhoy said:
The feminist direction of Seymour's thought is easy enough to see. http://left-flank.org/2013/01/15/debate-on-patriarchy-the-capitalist-mode-of-production/
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You score a goal here bolshiebhoy. I hadn't seen this before and don't agree with Seymour. bb 1 - oisin 0

I don't concede anything on this one though. http://internationalsocialismuk.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/is-zinovievism-finished-reply-to-alex.html . I read it as correcting the factual record by pointing out the RSDLP's pre-October practice, but not necessarily implying that is what he would want to see in the SWP now. Then I read a critique of how the SWP's current application of democratic centralism is over centralised, at the expense of democracy, with two case studies: conference as ratification not decision making and an overly-narrow composition of the CC. They seem valid to me and his rallying cry at the end is that of Widgery, in favour of Leninism: '... the problem is not that Leninism has failed, but that it has not been tried.' Which is hardly an attempt to say that Leninist parties have had their day.

And if you'll allow me the equaliser, then here's my extra-time effort to win, by bringing on a substitute question. Did the SWP in your view make a mistake in how they dealt with the rape accusation? If so, what was it?
 
[quoteHealy cokermit, post: 11973690, member: 28161"]although i was wrong when i said ade akinbiyi would score more goals in the premier league than emile heskey.[/quote]
Leave hesky out of it. He provided great comedy. Smiles are something villa are in sore need of now
 
i can remember as a younger person when i first encountered the ideas of Marx in the manifesto, and then Lenny in - i don't know, was it 'What Is To Be Done'? Both works seemed at the time to appeal to an egotistical sense that i might have some valuable input to make that might change the world. i'm not here making the traditional (and insulting) point that communism is for the idealistic youth which you then grow out of as yer wisdom develops, far from it. i think what i'm suggesting is that there is something about being a part of a 'vanguard', part of an advanced element which might lead us out of the wilderness which has strong emotional appeal, as well as being intellectually convincing for some (many?).

Of course, i'd have to own up to being a bit cynical these days, but i hope that the spirit for the emancipatory struggle hasn't entirely withered.
 
frogwoman said:
But if you think you're part of an advanced layer won't that mean that you might - might - be less likely to reflect on your beliefs and be critical of yourself and those of the party because you'd think you were right anyway?
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People have been a part of what they think are advanced layers for decades and it means fuck all to most people.
 
frogwoman said:
well yeah, that's my point!
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You were on about arrogant self-regard. That can be a dangerous problem in a situation where such orgs have a chance to influence or win power. Here? Lots of officers looking for an army to order about. What they think about themselves doesn't really matter. The 'army' never gave a shit.
 
Captain Hurrah said:
You were on about arrogant self-regard. That can be a dangerous problem in a situation where such orgs have a chance to influence or win power. Here? Lots of officers looking for an army to order about. What they think about themselves doesn't really matter. The 'army' never gave a shit.
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People might see the way some of em act and be completely put off any kind of politics though - in no small part because of people who say they represent them, and i don't see that as a good thing at all
 
some of the army, not giving a shit,

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I was referring to Leninist parties specifically. If arrogant self-regard can be a problem, perhaps it is in action right now? Class struggle is only done through them.
 
I was on about Leninist parties, and most people in this country not giving a shit about them. Want to to elaborate on what you are on about?
 
Captain Hurrah said:
I was on about Leninist parties, and most people in this country not giving a shit about them. Want to to elaborate on what you are on about?
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apparently, they haven't given a fuck for decades. the pictures, for example the first one of the picket at saltley, show's a mass mobilisation of birmingham engineers who also took a days strike action. this was a fairly important part of the miners victory which got rid of heath. it was argued for and passed in birmingham trades council by leninists. the same ones who argued and built for it with their workmates.

even now, with leninist parties barely visible, some individual comrades will be making an impact in their workplaces for the better. their workmates might give a shit.
 
discokermit said:
apparently, they haven't given a fuck for decades. the pictures, for example the first one of the picket at saltley, show's a mass mobilisation of birmingham engineers who also took a days strike action. this was a fairly important part of the miners victory which got rid of heath. it was argued for and passed in birmingham trades council by leninists. the same ones who argued and built for it with their workmates.

even now, with leninist parties barely visible, some individual comrades will be making an impact in their workplaces for the better. their workmates might give a shit.
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I have known people (some great, some not so) active in trades unions at my old and current workplaces. Not a single one of them a Leninist ...
 
Nope. That was rather disingenuous of you. What's your point? That only Leninists (some individual comrades you might or might not know who're active in trade unions) 'do' class struggle?
 
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