SNP & Greens not quite coalition

[Johnny Vodka]

What do people think about this? I joined the Greens and I like the idea... but, reading some stuff from more activist type Greens, they don't seem so impressed and think it might undermine some local campaigns. I'm actually thinking of abstaining on the vote tomorrow.

 

[danny la rouge]

The SNP are too close to business, managerial and untrustworthy on carbon reduction. The Cambo fudge was embarrassing.

 

[steeplejack]

It's got all the right people foaming at the mouth however. Right wing commentators have been bursting haemorrhoids, sobbing bitterly, and sometimes both, in populist rags all week about this. Douglas Ross once again outed himself as a homophobe with his "anti-family" drivel.

Yes it's not Lenin's return to the Finland station but it's a step forward. Would be a shame to pass up the chance of seeing if it can work on the basis of political purism.

The test for me is if the Greens can effectively check the SNP and force them to act in ways that go against the instincts danny la rouge mentions above. The jury is very much out on that.

I have absolutely had enough of the SNP but there's no one else. I'm sick of the same old grey suits, the same old centrist platitudes, the radical talk actioned by mediocre soft Centrist policy making.

Green involvement in government can only be a positive, at least on paper. I can't bear the likes of Greer or Slater but it's not a popularity contest. There's a chance that with them involved some action will actually be taken on the climate.

It's very likely our current landscape (bar Aberdeen and Ben Nevis) will be under a fathom of melted polar Ice Cap, before the Unionist parties get their act together.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, but if I was a Green I’d vote against it. My sister is a Green member and is undecided.

 

[steeplejack]

I don't think there's much space or time to indulge perfectionism / purism, as I said.

 

[Infidel Castro]

Sometimes you've got to just grasp the nettle. Greens can achieve more by being in the mix than on the sidelines. As long as they don't go full Lib Dem. Jeez.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, but if I was a Green I’d vote against it. My sister is a Green member and is undecided.

Yes. Regardless of anything else there's plenty of precedents of smaller coalition partners getting punished.

What I don't really get is why the SNP are so keen on forming a coalition this time.
Unless I've missed something it not like they were having trouble with a minority government. Most of the stuff they want the Greens will vote for anyway, and where they cannot count on Green support there must be a good chance of getting support (e.g. oil fields) from one of the other parties.

 

[weepiper]

Yes. Regardless of anything else there's plenty of precedents of smaller coalition partners getting punished.

What I don't really get is why the SNP are so keen on forming a coalition this time.
Unless I've missed something it not like they were having trouble with a minority government. Most of the stuff they want the Greens will vote for anyway, and where they cannot count on Green support there must be a good chance of getting support (e.g. oil fields) from one of the other parties.

I think it's because it reinforces the mandate for another referendum.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I have absolutely had enough of the SNP but there's no one else. I'm sick of the same old grey suits, the same old centrist platitudes, the radical talk actioned by mediocre soft Centrist policy making.

Although I joined the Greens, I think the SNP actually have some really interesting policies (most of which the Greens have too). I just think that, if you're serious about the environment/climate change, Green parties are the only ones that are prepared to go far enough.

 

[danny la rouge]

What I don't really get is why the SNP are so keen on forming a coalition this time.

Yeah, what weepiper says. The SNP are under fire from anxious indy supporters who think the SNP have gone soft on Indy.

 

[redsquirrel]

Ah so more about shoring up the base vote (and stopping defection to the Greens) than trying to attract new voters. Guess that makes sense. Ta WP, DLR

 

[danny la rouge]

My sister is voting in favour. She says:

“People are worried about getting LibDemed understandably but they are able to walk away from the arrangement at any time. So if they feel they are being taking for a ride they ll just walk.


I'm going to vote for it. I think it's a brilliant opportunity to push SNP to be greener and less oily and roady.


And less centralist.”

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yeah, what weepiper says. The SNP are under fire from anxious indy supporters who think the SNP have gone soft on Indy.

18 of the last 20 polls have been against independence. Greens or no Greens, it isn't going to happen.

Thankfully, the majority of Scots see the SNP: as the incompetent charlatans that they are.

They can't even maintain a ferry service.

 

[Sasaferrato]

My sister is voting in favour. She says:

“People are worried about getting LibDemed understandably but they are able to walk away from the arrangement at any time. So if they feel they are being taking for a ride they ll just walk.


I'm going to vote for it. I think it's a brilliant opportunity to push SNP to be greener and less oily and roady.


And less centralist.”

 

[Johnny Vodka]

18 of the last 20 polls have been against independence. Greens or no Greens, it isn't going to happen.

Thankfully, the majority of Scots see the SNP: as the incompetent charlatans that they are.

They can't even maintain a ferry service.

Coz Westminster does it so much better. Thankfully, most Scots see through the embarrassing twat that is Douglas Ross and yer Labour man, whose family business wouldn't pay its workers the living wage.

 

[tim]

Coz Westminster does it so much better. Thankfully, most Scots see through the embarrassing twat that is Douglas Ross and yer Labour man, whose family business wouldn't pay its workers the living wage.

Yes, there would have been none of this namby-pamby handwringing about Afghanistan had the Greens been in power in an independent Scotland. They'd have followed the example set in 2001 by Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister, and Green Party Leader and invaded. The Black Watch would be on the ground liberating Kabul; winning hearts and minds by installing wind turbines; and converting the Taliban Calvinism.


Speech by Joschka Fischer, Foreign Minister, at the opening of the meeting of the Afghanistan Support Group - Afghanistan
Darkness Over Kabul | by Joschka Fischer - Project Syndicate

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Looks like it's happening.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Coz Westminster does it so much better. Thankfully, most Scots see through the embarrassing twat that is Douglas Ross and yer Labour man, whose family business wouldn't pay its workers the living wage.

An open ended commitment to a defunct smelter in Fort William. £50m+

Two rotting hulks of ferries £100m so far...

A hospital at £1.1m a month, because no one had the competence to check the spec for air replacement.

Bifab, over £50m, company defunct.

Dead children due to contamination of a hospital's water supply. Pidgeon ingress, no one checked.

Utter failure on the Arran and Outer Hebrides ferry service, three boats out of service at the moment.

The SNP have been utter and absolute failures with what they have, but want more to fuck up. Don't think so.

 

[Sue]

Yes, there would have been none of this namby-pamby handwringing about Afghanistan had the Greens been in power in an independent Scotland. They'd have followed the example set in 2001 by Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister, and Green Party Leader and invaded. The Black Watch would be on the ground liberating Kabul; winning hearts and minds by installing wind turbines; and converting the Taliban Calvinism.


Speech by Joschka Fischer, Foreign Minister, at the opening of the meeting of the Afghanistan Support Group - Afghanistan
Darkness Over Kabul | by Joschka Fischer - Project Syndicate

What?

 

[tim]

What?

The German Greens went into a coalition government with the Social Democrats in Germany and were positively Blairite in their support of the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I gather that if the polls show 60% in favour, Westminster will grant a referendum. That's never then, there has never been a single poll (that I recall) that was 60% in favour of leaving.

Absolutely fair, if you cannot get 6 in 10 on on your side, then you shouldn't split the country.

If I was Boris, I would scrap the Barnett agreement, and let the people of Scotland see just how much worse off they are.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

What?

I thought it was just me that didn't get it.

 

[steeplejack]

The German Greens went into a coalition government with the Social Democrats in Germany and were positively Blairite in their support of the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

and this has precisely what to do with anything in 2021 Scotland?

 

[tim]

and this has precisely what to do with anything in 2021 Scotland?

It has everything to do with Green politicians once they get into power be it in Germany, Scotland, or anywhere else.

 

[steeplejack]

oh

 

[danny la rouge]

To be fair, the BBC makes the Scottish Greens sound fucking ace.

 

[danny la rouge]

Also:

 

[danny la rouge]

Where do I sign?

 

[Sue]

The German Greens went into a coalition government with the Social Democrats in Germany and were positively Blairite in their support of the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

What has someting that happened 20 years ago in Germany got to do with now in Scotland?

 

[co-op]

The German Greens went into a coalition government with the Social Democrats in Germany and were positively Blairite in their support of the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

But kept Germany out of the invasion of Iraq leading to Rumsfeld's famous explosion of wrath about "old Europe" (ie the bits not joining the neo-con caravan him and Blair got running post 9/11).

Which doesn't add up to a fantastic record, but might be called better than nothing, a lot of that post 9/11 imperialist wave ran on momentum and hussle from Bush/Blair's crew as soon as big players started breaking off the whole thing ground to a halt.

(Admittedly also because Rumsfeldism was basically a re-run of Rumsfeld's youthful Cold War fantasies of "taking" central Asia and turned out to be meaningless in a post Soviet world but it's always good to see the big powers fail in their attempts to achieve a no-debate unanimity isn't it?)