Sleaford Mods

[Fozzie Bear]

Like this is, formally, “political” music but is actually terrible on all sorts of levels isn’t it?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Whereas this is “just“ a love song, sung by a teenager, but it’s political on all sorts of levels and is better music.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

This has no words in, but was composed in a concentration camp.

 

[mojo pixy]

With respect I don't necessarily know what point you're making, Fozzie Bear except that some music is political, some lyrics are political, a lot isn' t and aren't, and it's not always easy to tell the difference. If that's what you're saying then I agree.


The power of a writer (I'm talking about words now) is in giving we who do not conceive and compose words, words to express things we feel but didn't have the right words for. This is any writer's gift, and it's why we find inspiration in their work.

So Sleaford Mods go Tories are shit (or whatever) and that's great, yes in a way it's political like farting at a council meeting is political. And is that it? Is that the thought I'm meant to have, is that really the problem with UK grim - tories are shit? Is that it, all that's bothering me? Throw it in the bin?

I think they could do better, we deserve better, and there is better. But whatever really, it's just a view. Sleaford Mods are well monetized and actually that's the point. So they'll go on walking the line between sounding argy-bargy cryptic like an angry ket prophet, but not actually saying anything that might eg. get them cancelled.

 

[krtek a houby]

It’s why I hate that thread on “subversive music” which appears to be about blokes ranting on about stuff.

It's a shame about the conspiracy nonsense

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I really can’t make it any clearer than “all music is political”. But I’ll try and have another go soon.

 

[mojo pixy]

Fine; everything is political when you come right down to it. We may be at cross-purposes though because I'm talking about music that's explicitly political in intent, that intentionally aims to promote** some political idea/s, world-view/s or ethical or moral feeling/s or even position/s, relates to me in some explicit way about the world and people around me and how I interact with it and them. Inspires me to want to stand up and do something political, maybe. But anyway more that kind of political than all art is political, which may be true but IMO is a different sense of political.

** express, inspire, reveal, highlight etc

Commentary can be political, that's the angle I'm seeing put forward about SM. Yes they do their snarky commentary that's true. I think commentary is often what passes for politics today so fair enough.

Finally as an old git I have to say Carter USM were better, and so were the Pet Shop Boys

 

[krtek a houby]

Yeah but are overtly political bands great? I think it worked for the Blaggers and some punk stuff but it can all end up as a bit of a whinge set to guitars. I'd rather get that from pamphlets than with a tune.

The American folk movement in the 40s onwards was political and great. Despite many being blacklisted and vilified. The Weavers, for example.

(Not their most political, but absolutely beautiful)



Woody Guthrie


And the great Paul Robeson with one of the greatest songs ever

 

[xenon]

I don’t get this, all music is political, thing either.

 

[xenon]

I think I only looked at that thread on subversive music once. It just seemed so cringe.

 

[mojo pixy]

The American folk movement in the 40s onwards was political and great. Despite many being blacklisted and vilified. The Weavers, for example.

(Not their most political, but absolutely beautiful)



Woody Guthrie


And the great Paul Robeson with one of the greatest songs ever

There's a lot of politics in blues music. It began as music of slaves and descendents of slaves, so of course politics is baked right in.

 

[krtek a houby]

I think I only looked at that thread on subversive music once. It just seemed so cringe.

The antivaxx and right wing stuff certainly is.

 

[Humberto]

I don’t get this, all music is political, thing either.

Not being political is political

 

[hitmouse]

Nah. Music about love, partying, sitting in a room is political.

Asking the question “what are the politics of this music?” is always better than dividing music into political or apolitical.

Feels like some people are absolutely fucking daring me to post that quote about refusal of constraints, corpses in mouth, etc.
I don't think we're saying there's anything wrong with love, we just don't think that what goes on between two people should be shrouded with mystery.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fine; everything is political when you come right down to it. We may be at cross-purposes though because I'm talking about music that's explicitly political in intent, that intentionally aims to promote** some political idea/s, world-view/s or ethical or moral feeling/s or even position/s, relates to me in some explicit way about the world and people around me and how I interact with it and them. Inspires me to want to stand up and do something political, maybe. But anyway more that kind of political than all art is political, which may be true but IMO is a different sense of political.

** express, inspire, reveal, highlight etc

Commentary can be political, that's the angle I'm seeing put forward about SM. Yes they do their snarky commentary that's true. I think commentary is often what passes for politics today so fair enough.

Finally as an old git I have to say Carter USM were better, and so were the Pet Shop Boys

I'm not sure how commentary can't be political.

This is life, this is how it hurts.

At some level 'things could be different' is implied.

It doesn't provide solutions necessarily, beyond 'not this', but why should it?

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm not sure how commentary can't be political.

This is life, this is how it hurts.

At some level 'things could be different' is implied.

It doesn't provide solutions necessarily, beyond 'not this', but why should it?

Observational tragi-comedy for angry people, set to music.

 

[hitmouse]

Observational tragi-comedy for angry people, set to music.

I can't tell if you're praising or dissing them at this point.

 

[mojo pixy]

As Michael Stipe sang, I know that this is vitriol, no-solution spleen venting, but I feel better having screamed, don't you?

I'm not sure SM is cathartic enough for that but maybe I'm just jaded

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There was a gangster game released for the PC called Empire of Sin that flopped, because everyone wanted it to be a different game.
Seems the main issue with SM is similar in that people want different lyrics. Quite odd.

 

[hitmouse]

I don’t get this, all music is political, thing either.

Thinking of how Mark Fisher put it:

It is still often assumed that politics is somehow ‘inside’ cultural products, irrespective of their context and their use. Sometimes, agit-prop style culture can of course be politically transformative. But even the most reactionary cultural expression can contribute to a transformative project if it is sensitively attended to. It is possible to see the work of the late Stuart Hall in this light: as an attempt to bring to leftist politics the messages that culture was trying to impart to it. If this project was something of a tragic failure, it was a consequence, not of the shortcomings in Hall’s approach, but of the intransigence of the old left, its deafness to the desires and anxieties being expressed in culture.

(Never actually read Stuart Hall btw.)

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Fine; everything is political when you come right down to it. We may be at cross-purposes though because I'm talking about music that's explicitly political in intent, that intentionally aims to promote** some political idea/s, world-view/s or ethical or moral feeling/s or even position/s, relates to me in some explicit way about the world and people around me and how I interact with it and them. Inspires me to want to stand up and do something political, maybe. But anyway more that kind of political than all art is political, which may be true but IMO is a different sense of political.

** express, inspire, reveal, highlight etc

Commentary can be political, that's the angle I'm seeing put forward about SM. Yes they do their snarky commentary that's true. I think commentary is often what passes for politics today so fair enough.

Finally as an old git I have to say Carter USM were better, and so were the Pet Shop Boys

I agree that we see things differently, for sure. And that's not necessarily bad.

People probably won't read this and there is a lot wrong with it, but it is a good critique of "rebel music": The Original: The End of Music

But a few things off the top of my head:

I find it frustrating that people think that music which is lyrically about progressive politics is necessarily good and is a useful contribution to political struggles in a way that other music isn't.

I think I only looked at that thread on subversive music once. It just seemed so cringe.

I think Xenon raises an important point here which is that this sort of music can be seen as preaching to the choir and actually put people off thinking about progressive issues or getting involved with campaigning/struggles.

Whereas music with no lyrics at all can be political in that it brings people together with a sense of their collective power. Rave music was political because of the social context it was made and played in. Jungle was political because it brought together different strands of youth AND how it mashed up different styles of music. Both rave and Jungle were political in their wildly innovative production which was imo a pinnacle of avant garde weirdness.

The Birdie Song was political because it represented a particular moment in British working class hedonism (being able to afford package holidays in Spain).

Don't get me wrong, things like Crass were an important doorway into radicalising me. But I'm now more interested in radical change than music with lyrics about radical change.

I think some people (obviously nobody here, hem hem) kid themselves that we can bring about revolution or cultural change by banging out another song with lyrics about how rich people are immoral and how we all need to stick together. And war is bad.

So I am wanting to puncture that. Or at least kick it about a bit and see what happens. I want people to think more about what music and politics are and the limits of "protest music". But it's fine if they don't.

For me, Billy Bragg's music isn't "more political" than Autechre. Their music has different politics.

This is what I mean by:

Asking the question “what are the politics of this music?” is always better than dividing music into political or apolitical.

 

[mojo pixy]

I find it frustrating that people think that music which is lyrically about progressive politics is necessarily good and is a useful contribution to political struggles in a way that other music isn't.

I don't actually think this tbh. But I also don't think Sleaford Mods' music is lyrically about progressive politics in any meaningful way.

 

[hitmouse]

I don't actually think this tbh. But I also don't think Sleaford Mods' music is lyrically about progressive politics in any meaningful way.

OK, so if we're agreed that being Lyrically About Progressive Politics is not the be-all and end-all, the question (or a question at least) is then do they have anything interesting to say even if it doesn't neatly fit into that particular box? I'd say that they would, or at least did back when I was paying attention to them, not having actually listened to the new album.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Political music from ostensibly non political bands.

The Circus - Erasure



Wham Rap - Wham



The Land of Make Believe - Bucks Fizz



Can you guess what that one is about?

 

[mojo pixy]

OK, so if we're agreed that being Lyrically About Progressive Politics is not the be-all and end-all, the question (or a question at least) is then do they have anything interesting to say even if it doesn't neatly fit into that particular box?

I haven't been able to identify anything, myself. But I'm not a massive fan of SMs' sound and certainly haven't heard everything they've done.

I'd be amazed

 

[Orang Utan]

Political music from ostensibly non political bands.

The Circus - Erasure



Wham Rap - Wham



The Land of Make Believe - Bucks Fizz



Can you guess what that one is about?

Brexit

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Brexit

Thatcherism.

 

[Orang Utan]

Thatcherism.

‘‘Twas but a quip

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I find it frustrating that people think that music which is lyrically about progressive politics is necessarily good and is a useful contribution to political struggles in a way that other music isn't.

100% this. Most of the political bands I've liked, some of which has emerged (unlike SM) from within political struggles - Blaggers, Redskins - I've ended up liking despite much of the actual music. Some of the music I like - McCarthy, Easterhouse - I like despite the political allegiances.

Plus, do SM actually write lyrics about progressive politics? It seems to me that they have an obsessive focus on how awful England is that's become more and more abstract the more they became 'professional musicians'. That might well chime with a particular mileu but is it really an example of progressive politics?

Whereas music with no lyrics at all can be political in that it brings people together with a sense of their collective power. Rave music was political because of the social context it was made and played in.

Also 100% this. It was transgressive and because of that bought people together and politicised people in a way that two white PB middle aged blokes shouting at other middle aged white PB blokes does not.

 

[seeformiles]

A lot of overtly political music without decent tunes is a waste of time for me. I may like some of the sentiments of Crass or Billy Bragg but the music, such as it is, is pretty fucking awful. Bob Marley had the right mix I thought I.e. plenty of righteous anger but well balanced with subject matter of what music should be about in the main (Drinking, drugging, fucking - all the fun stuff )