Sheridan abandons hope for the SSP and tries to form new party

[sevenstars]

That's your problem though isn't it. It's only them and their friends who are sayinng it.

'Them and their friends' though are the people who have been TS's closest friends, lovers and comrades for the last twenty years. They are devastated by how he has behaved. I wonder how long his new friends will stick around for.

 

[Fullyplumped]

SSP computers to be seized by police

In today's Herald

It is understood that a Scottish Socialist Party member was questioned by officers this week. Another SSP member, Felicity Garvie, is also expected to be interviewed within days.

Police officers are tomorrow expected to remove the computer used to type the minutes from the SSP's Glasgow headquarters for forensic tests.

It is understood police officers plan to interview an SSP colleague of Mr Sheridan's fellow Solidarity MSP Rosemary Bryne, next week.​

The levels of stress on these people must be intense. Were Tommy Sheridan's court escapades really worth it?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

In today's Herald

It is understood that a Scottish Socialist Party member was questioned by officers this week. Another SSP member, Felicity Garvie, is also expected to be interviewed within days.

Police officers are tomorrow expected to remove the computer used to type the minutes from the SSP's Glasgow headquarters for forensic tests.

It is understood police officers plan to interview an SSP colleague of Mr Sheridan's fellow Solidarity MSP Rosemary Bryne, next week.​

The levels of stress on these people must be intense. Were Tommy Sheridan's court escapades really worth it?

At least those who stayed with the SSP have less to worry about as they told the truth. Those who went with Solidarity must be really worried.

 

[nwnm]

At least those who stayed with the SSP have less to worry about as they told the truth. Those who went with Solidarity must be really worried.

Coming from an 'orthodox' trotskyist background you may have a little trouble recognising the truth/reality yourself. Some people from your background were arguing that the second world war wasn't actually over as late as 1948 I believe........

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Coming from an 'orthodox' trotskyist background you may have a little trouble recognising the truth/reality yourself. Some people from your background were arguing that the second world war wasn't actually over as late as 1948 I believe........

An unbelievable diversion ... I that you will find Cliff, your guru, was a member of the FI at the time ... it's a matter of interpretation the extent to which the 'second world war' did continue long after VJ day, not least in the anti-stalin and anti-colonial wars that led to independence for India, and the Chinese and Yugoslav Revolutions, not to mention the civil war in Greece which didn't end until 1949 etc etc ... these global wars involved millions and were a continuation of the struggles that began in the 1930s and before and made up a key element of the complex dynamic that was the 'second world war'. Don't be so anglo-centric in your analysis ...

Quite what this has to do with the SWP covering up Sheridan's lies is anyone's guess - the fact is that Sheridan lied and you all know it.

 

[nwnm]

so when did WW2 end in your 'non anglo centric' < > analysis then - or is it still going on?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

At least those who stayed with the SSP have less to worry about as they told the truth.

I'd say that the main reason anyone in Solidarity has anything to worry about in terms of the police investigation is that the SSP appear to be cooperating fully with the police.

It is understood that a Scottish Socialist Party member was questioned by officers this week. Another SSP member, Felicity Garvie, is also expected to be interviewed within days.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

so when did WW2 end in your 'non anglo centric' < > analysis then - or is it still going on?

The ending of the Greek Civil War in 1949 was certainly the completion of the last major outbreak of warfare in Europe to follow through from WW2. The Hungarian uprising of 1956 was a revolt against the Soviet occupation but undoubtably could be said to be discontiguous. However, and arguably, the Yugoslav civil war of the 1990s could be seen to be unfinished business from WW2.

 

[sevenstars]

I'd say that the main reason anyone in Solidarity has anything to worry about in terms of the police investigation is that the SSP appear to be cooperating fully with the police.

And do you expect 'Solidarity' members not to fully co-operate with the Police?

Why involve the state and the courts in the first place if you expect any other course of action?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I'd say that the main reason anyone in Solidarity has anything to worry about in terms of the police investigation is that the SSP appear to be cooperating fully with the police.

Remind us all why the police have got involved in this?

Nothing to do with Sheridan's insistence on going to court ...?

 

[nwnm]

The ending of the Greek Civil War in 1949 was certainly the completion of the last major outbreak of warfare in Europe to follow through from WW2. The Hungarian uprising of 1956 was a revolt against the Soviet occupation but undoubtably could be said to be discontiguous. However, and arguably, the Yugoslav civil war of the 1990s could be seen to be unfinished business from WW2.

WW2 ended in the 1990's, the SSP are lovely people who wouldn't dream of making secret video's of their friends - repeat after me '4 legs good, 2 legs bad.......'

 

[sevenstars]

WW2 ended in the 1990's, the SSP are lovely people who wouldn't dream of making secret video's of their friends - repeat after me '4 legs good, 2 legs bad.......'

You brought WW2 into this as another desperate attempt at distraction. Your own sect has also held all sorts of wrong positions and mistaken perspectives in the past.

The real problem is that they are unable to admit that they have ever fucked up and got it wrong.

And its really crap by the way, debating with people who know that TS is an unprincipled liar. It that sense your tradition is that of the pigs in animal farm, part of the problem rather than the solution.

 

[nwnm]

Meanwhile back in the real world…. Interesting letter here - http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/72048.html

And more on the rise of solidarity -
http://www.highland-news.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/612/Sheridan_plays_the_red_card.html

http://www.buchanie.co.uk/archived/2006/week_40/news/solidarity.asp

 

[pk]

Sheridan's a shithead.... and he's going to prison.

 

[nwnm]

Sheridan's a shithead.... and he's going to prison.

the jurie's out on that one - and they've been quite favourable so far....

 

[sevenstars]

Meanwhile back in the real world…. Interesting letter here - http://www.theherald.co.uk/features/72048.html
]

Back in the 'real world' any MI5 involvement in this is likely to have been through groups like the SWP, the Trotskyist left has always been a comfortable berth for them. Same culture of orders from above and contempt for democracy.

Their leaders also seem to come from the same public schools- which ex public school boy CC member has responsibility for Scotland by the way ? These people grow up with each other.

Sheridan is a lying shit, but even worse is those who know it and have encouraged it and exploited it. What sort of better world are they ever going to produce?

 

[nwnm]

Back in the 'real world' any MI5 involvement in this is likely to have been through groups like the SWP, the Trotskyist left has always been a comfortable berth for them. Same culture of orders from above and contempt for democracy.

Their leaders also seem to come from the same public schools- which ex public school boy CC member has responsibility for Scotland by the way ? These people grow up with each other.

Sheridan is a lying shit, but even worse is those who know it and have encouraged it and exploited it. What sort of better world are they ever going to produce?

erm most of your leading members are from the er 'Trotskyist left'
Nice to see the SSP abandoning sectarianism and looking to 'new methods' of organising <i.e. flogging dodgy video's to the N.O.W. and wittering on about 'trotskyists'>

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Reminder for those in London, this Friday:

Scottish Socialist Party Public Meeting

Hosted by Socialist Resistance

After the Sheridan split:

the fight for socialism in Scotland


SPEAKER: Frances Curran MSP, and other SSP speakers to be announced.
Friday 27 October

7.00pm, University of London Union , Malet St , WC1


What are the facts behind one of the most damaging splits the left has suffered for many years? And after the split, what are the prospects for the Scottish Socialist Party, one of the most promising developments for socialism in Europe for many years?


Socialist Resistance defended the unity and perspectives of the SSP before, during and after the Sheridan affair. We believe that the principles fought for and established by the SSP of building a united pluralist militant socialist and democratic party remains the best way forward for the working class of Scotland

www.socialistresistance.net

 

[sevenstars]

erm most of your leading members are from the er 'Trotskyist left' QUOTE]

Yes but they broke from the tradition of building a classic Trotskyist sect a long time ago, thats why the SSP actually had a hope of getting somewhere. And perhaps why it had to be destroyed.

The SSP are getting on with new ways of doing things, some of us are just left a bit more bitter than others for various reasons, but that is not the general, or the best, response.

Its now clearer than ever though what a dangerous and unprincipled shower your lot are.

 

[nwnm]

erm most of your leading members are from the er 'Trotskyist left' QUOTE]

Yes but they broke from the tradition of building a classic Trotskyist sect a long time ago

and I suppose they learnt their sect like control freakery from tony blair then

 

[sevenstars]

and I suppose they learnt their sect like control freakery from tony blair then

Clearly you have no experience of the SSP, and perhaps not a lot of the SWP either to come out with nonsense like this!

 

[nwnm]

so perhaps you can explain why the ISM appears to have such tight control on the apparatus of the SSP then

 

[tollbar]

The dream Team.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/72785.html

 

[Fisher_Gate]

so perhaps you can explain why the ISM appears to have such tight control on the apparatus of the SSP then

The ISM dissolved in March 2006. One of its founders was a certain T. Sheridan ...

I suspect you meant to refer to the United Left ... which is not formally a platform of the SSP, ie it does not organise within the SSP, it is more a broad statement of aims for the Party. Since the departure of Sheridan with his self-styled 'SSP Majority' (sic), which included the platforms of the SWP and CWI, it is the only remaining current of any significant size within the SSP.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The ISM dissolved in March 2006.

Officially. Long before that it had dissolved politically, remaining purely as a kind of leadership caucus. When divisions (personal, political, etc) began to open up within the ISM it couldn't even play that role.

I suspect you meant to refer to the United Left ... which is not formally a platform of the SSP, ie it does not organise within the SSP, it is more a broad statement of aims for the Party.

This is false. The United Left initially declared itself a "network" rather than a "platform", in an attempt to portray itself as not being a faction. It was however formally recognised as a platform and as far as I know still is.

As to whether it is still trying to organise, I don't know. I'm not sure why it would now given that it doesn't have a politics different from those of the SSP leadership (it makes up that leadership) and that there aren't any other political currents or views to organise against.

Since the departure of Sheridan with his self-styled 'SSP Majority' (sic), which included the platforms of the SWP and CWI,

Hardly significant I realise, but Solidarity also includes the people who were the Scottish supporters of the ISG.

it is the only remaining current of any significant size within the SSP.

True. The RCN, one of the two ultra-nationalist platforms is very small. The SRSM, the other one, is even tinier and is I'm told in the process of leaving anyway. Workers Unity, a grouping opposed to Scottish independence and calling for a British wide socialist party, has four members.

 

[sevenstars]

so perhaps you can explain why the ISM appears to have such tight control on the apparatus of the SSP then

In addition to the above posts, its worth noting that the ISM when it was functioning had so much influence on the structures of the SSP because its activists were popular and won internal elections!

Much of their credibility came from previous struggles as the bulk of activists in Scottish Militant Labour, who were also the driving force for socialist unity in Scotland.

However Alan Green, outgoing SSP national secretary was not a member, just as Colin Fox is not a supporter of the United Left.

The SSP has never had a monolithic internal structure nor expelled anyone, there is nothing like it in England, where people like myself are basically politically homeless.

 

[Fullyplumped]

He was poor, but he was honest

According to today's Times (and Guido Fawkes) that nice Mr Galloway stands to make more than half a million pounds from the sale of his old home in London's chic Streatham district.

He's accepted an offer for the house, on which he apparently has a mortgage of £295,000 and which was marketed by Foxton's at £825,000.

Will Mr Galloway be sharing his good fortune with the comrades in Respect, or will he be looking for a nice little bachelor pad in Scotland for the time that Mr Sheridan becomes busy seeking further legal advice, do we think?

 

[DexterTCN]

ooooh. He's selling a house.

Now who paid £3.6 million for a house in a rich Arab neighbourhood a while back?

answer

Ominously, for the would-be buy-to-let Blairs, the house hasn’t proved a rental winner either: the consensus among local agents is that they would be lucky to achieve £2,000 a week. That would leave a “measly” gross rental yield of 2.7%; not nearly enough to pay the mortgage, even before you include management charges and maintenance costs. In fact, it would leave the Blairs with a loss of around £30,000 a year. However, on the plus side, unlike many suffering buy-to-let investors, at least the Blairs can afford the loss. Both are high-earners anyway, and Cherie is hoping to earn up to £100,000 from sales of her book, The Goldfish Bowl, plus a further £90,000 from lectures in the US next month. Meanwhile, Tony can expect to cash in when he steps down, publishes his memoirs and becomes a fixture on the US lecture circuit.

link

America will pay for Blair's...isn't that nice?

 

[nwnm]

In addition to the above posts, its worth noting that the ISM when it was functioning had so much influence on the structures of the SSP because its activists were popular and won internal elections!

Much of their credibility came from previous struggles as the bulk of activists in Scottish Militant Labour, who were also the driving force for socialist unity in Scotland.

However Alan Green, outgoing SSP national secretary was not a member, just as Colin Fox is not a supporter of the United Left.

The SSP has never had a monolithic internal structure nor expelled anyone, there is nothing like it in England, where people like myself are basically politically homeless.

Fox WAS in the ISM though when he replaced Sheridan. The ISM had so much influence on the structure of the SSP because they were EMPLOYED as part of that structure. They were employed by the SSP as organisers, and so able to play an important part in selecting delegates to conferences. At those conferences other ISM members were elected to positions in the SSP. Sounds like a monolithic internal structure to me.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Fox WAS in the ISM though when he replaced Sheridan. The ISM had so much influence on the structure of the SSP because they were EMPLOYED as part of that structure. They were employed by the SSP as organisers, and so able to play an important part in selecting delegates to conferences. At those conferences other ISM members were elected to positions in the SSP. Sounds like a monolithic internal structure to me.

Sounds like a case of people in glasshouses throwing stones to me ...

The SSP practised democracy and brought issues to leadership bodies.

Unlike Respect where decisions are made and announced by Rees and Galloway without reference to elected leadership bodies or their members (recent example - calling a Rally on Islamaphobia and attempting to reduce the number of hours of the Respect conference; old example - big brother, 'nuff said!),