Sheridan abandons hope for the SSP and tries to form new party
- Thread starter Fullyplumped
- Start date
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
sevenstars said:
It would normally be the prestige associated with having a trade union affiliated which would be the greatest loss for the SSP. Given their financial difficulties though I suspect that the biggest problem this poses in the short term is the loss of the RMT's money.
sevenstars
citizen army
nwnm said:
Just do a google search with 'SSP 80% membership', thats what I did.
Given that the 'Solidarity coalition' claims 600 members, which seems to be based on the numbers attending its first rally, and SSP membership was around 3,000, this seems to be what the figure is based on.
Obviously the problem is going to be folk like the RMT who just walk away, thats generally what happens after splits in socialist organisations, which is why socialist unity is seen as so valuable.
However there are also reports of people still joining the SSP, and the experience has also strengthened many members loyalty to it, including my own. So we'll have to see.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
nwnm said:
Lack of members didn't stop your newspaper putting in a sectarian dig at the comrades success in the Brazilian election.
JHE
.
Here's a bit of tittle-tattle from today's People: TOP BNP AIDE IS SLEAZY SWINGER.
I post it here not because the sexual antics of a BNPer are particularly interesting, but because there are still people stupid enough - or dishonest enough - to claim that the gutter press does this sort of exposé to pick on 'Socialist leaders' like big Tommy Liar. The press isn't so fussy. They'll do it to anyone - even someone as obscure as Martin Reynolds of the BNP.
I post it here not because the sexual antics of a BNPer are particularly interesting, but because there are still people stupid enough - or dishonest enough - to claim that the gutter press does this sort of exposé to pick on 'Socialist leaders' like big Tommy Liar. The press isn't so fussy. They'll do it to anyone - even someone as obscure as Martin Reynolds of the BNP.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Brits out of scotland
This is an interesting perspective.
Pushes sectarianism and Nationalism to the limits.
Not one I agree with
(Sorry could'nt find article so had to copy from e-mail)
Comrades,
I am resigning from the SSP over a number of issues. The scab behaviour by
certain Comrades against Tommy Sheridan thus forcing him out the party.
The failure of the party to adopt the progressive motion by the Scottish
Republican Socialist Movement to entrench clause (V) in the constitution for
Scottish independence thus making the SSP a truely pro-independence party.
A local SSP member voice that the Saltire should be burnt after the Revolution
Since Colin Fox had taken leadership of the party the issue of an Independent
Scottish Republic has been last on his agenda.
Those who advocace change in Scotland are platforms such as the RCN are worse
than the pro-Brit platforms as they really pull the wool over peoples eyes and
have opposed every progressive step by Donald Anderson to entench independence
in the SSP Constitution.
The Brits rule the party as they will in Solidarity by the SWP/CWI. London
based platform or parties should never of been let in the SSP a party that is
meant to support the Scottish Socialist Republic.
Members of the SSP have used the capitalist court system a tool of imperialism
certainly against Tommy Sheridan.
No organisation represents the interests of Scottish Freedom execept the
Scottish Socialist Freedom Movement (SSFM) to use any means necessary including
violence to drive the Anglo-Brits out of Scotland!
RED LARRY
Lawrence Morton
This is an interesting perspective.
Pushes sectarianism and Nationalism to the limits.
Not one I agree with
(Sorry could'nt find article so had to copy from e-mail)
Comrades,
I am resigning from the SSP over a number of issues. The scab behaviour by
certain Comrades against Tommy Sheridan thus forcing him out the party.
The failure of the party to adopt the progressive motion by the Scottish
Republican Socialist Movement to entrench clause (V) in the constitution for
Scottish independence thus making the SSP a truely pro-independence party.
A local SSP member voice that the Saltire should be burnt after the Revolution
Since Colin Fox had taken leadership of the party the issue of an Independent
Scottish Republic has been last on his agenda.
Those who advocace change in Scotland are platforms such as the RCN are worse
than the pro-Brit platforms as they really pull the wool over peoples eyes and
have opposed every progressive step by Donald Anderson to entench independence
in the SSP Constitution.
The Brits rule the party as they will in Solidarity by the SWP/CWI. London
based platform or parties should never of been let in the SSP a party that is
meant to support the Scottish Socialist Republic.
Members of the SSP have used the capitalist court system a tool of imperialism
certainly against Tommy Sheridan.
No organisation represents the interests of Scottish Freedom execept the
Scottish Socialist Freedom Movement (SSFM) to use any means necessary including
violence to drive the Anglo-Brits out of Scotland!
RED LARRY
Lawrence Morton
“The troubles which have torn the SSP apart have also harmed its chances with the party down to just 4 per cent on both votes, a level of popular support which is likely to wipe out most of the gains the party made in 2003.
Tommy Sheridan's new party, Solidarity, has done enough to register just 1 per cent of the vote, not nearly enough to guarantee the party a seat next May but that position may well change over the next few months.”
http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1615112006
See also
http://iclanarkshire.icnetwork.co.u...objectid=18045465&siteid=50144-name_page.html
And
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10098
Tommy Sheridan's new party, Solidarity, has done enough to register just 1 per cent of the vote, not nearly enough to guarantee the party a seat next May but that position may well change over the next few months.”
http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=1615112006
See also
http://iclanarkshire.icnetwork.co.u...objectid=18045465&siteid=50144-name_page.html
And
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=10098
For the CWI view of the conference see the report by Philip Stott at:
http://www.socialistworld.net/ News and Analysis section.
http://www.socialistworld.net/ News and Analysis section.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Very interesting reflections on this at Dave's Part blog -
He makes the point that the SWP nearly won the argument not to call Tommy's new groupuscule a "socialist" movement, and quoted Philip Stott elsewhere as commenting that "One SWP speaker, after another, emphasised that if Solidarity was socialist it would put off people joining.
"They argued that Islamophobia was the “main political issue” in society, today, and that Solidarity has to prioritise winning more Muslims into its ranks."
Now, those of us who live in Scotland might really wonder whether "islamophobia" really is the main political issue in our country right now. More important than public health, more important than the military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, more important than energy and nuclear power, more important than the national question, more important than, even, policy over bin collections.
Incidentially, there appear to be only 119 SWP members in Scotland, judging by their turnout at the Solidarity first national conference.
As one commenter on the blog said, "Solidarity: Scotland's Movement for, like, good stuff and against, like bad stuff like imperialism, yeah?"
One other point - the dark green and red of Solidarity's logo is not that far away from the dark green and red of Respect - convenient or co-incidence?
He makes the point that the SWP nearly won the argument not to call Tommy's new groupuscule a "socialist" movement, and quoted Philip Stott elsewhere as commenting that "One SWP speaker, after another, emphasised that if Solidarity was socialist it would put off people joining.
"They argued that Islamophobia was the “main political issue” in society, today, and that Solidarity has to prioritise winning more Muslims into its ranks."
Now, those of us who live in Scotland might really wonder whether "islamophobia" really is the main political issue in our country right now. More important than public health, more important than the military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, more important than energy and nuclear power, more important than the national question, more important than, even, policy over bin collections.
Incidentially, there appear to be only 119 SWP members in Scotland, judging by their turnout at the Solidarity first national conference.
As one commenter on the blog said, "Solidarity: Scotland's Movement for, like, good stuff and against, like bad stuff like imperialism, yeah?"
One other point - the dark green and red of Solidarity's logo is not that far away from the dark green and red of Respect - convenient or co-incidence?
you obviously missed this bit in the dave's part blog "The thing is, I bet the SWP could have mobilised nine more members if they had tried hard enough." Yep we could have had the majority at conference just by packing the meeting - that would not be the same as winning an argument about islamophobia or about the coalition verses party stuff <thankfully its still called a movement 
>
Islamophobia <or to lets give it the old fashioned word Racism> as it stands is a direct result of the military presence in Afghanistan/Iraq for a start, and tends to be a running sore through just about every other issue. Even the tories can campaign on health and green issues and make New Labour look reactionary. what none of the other parties will do is tackle the reactionary crap about muslims stoked up by Jack Straw and co. at the same time as campaigning on other issues.
Why does it matter? Islamophobia is the elephant in the cupboard that many on the left don't want to even think about. You ignore it at your peril. The Jack straw comments have led to a witch - hunt against Muslims in the gutter press. Whilst it hasn't reached the furore that Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech did <no groups of workers went out on strike in support of Straw> it will find an echo within sections of the class; which is why it needs to be tackled head on and in an organised fashion. <This is also why the Stop the War Coalition are having a conference on the issue>.
This is not an abstract rant either. A week or so I had to tackle this argument head on at work with a particularly nasty bunch of racist bastards, who up until now would never have had the guts to come out with this sort of crap. After a long row about whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear their various head coverings at work, they decided shut up in the end. But several days later they obviously decided something had to be done about me, one of them made up a false complaint about me and I am currently suspended on full pay pending an enquiry. This is not an argument that can be ducked or avoided and it does not depend on what percentage of the population are muslims where you live. Lets not forget, the old rule of thumb that says that people who do not have large numbers of an ethnic group living near them are more likely to be prejudiced against them.....
>Islamophobia <or to lets give it the old fashioned word Racism> as it stands is a direct result of the military presence in Afghanistan/Iraq for a start, and tends to be a running sore through just about every other issue. Even the tories can campaign on health and green issues and make New Labour look reactionary. what none of the other parties will do is tackle the reactionary crap about muslims stoked up by Jack Straw and co. at the same time as campaigning on other issues.
Why does it matter? Islamophobia is the elephant in the cupboard that many on the left don't want to even think about. You ignore it at your peril. The Jack straw comments have led to a witch - hunt against Muslims in the gutter press. Whilst it hasn't reached the furore that Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech did <no groups of workers went out on strike in support of Straw> it will find an echo within sections of the class; which is why it needs to be tackled head on and in an organised fashion. <This is also why the Stop the War Coalition are having a conference on the issue>.
This is not an abstract rant either. A week or so I had to tackle this argument head on at work with a particularly nasty bunch of racist bastards, who up until now would never have had the guts to come out with this sort of crap. After a long row about whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear their various head coverings at work, they decided shut up in the end. But several days later they obviously decided something had to be done about me, one of them made up a false complaint about me and I am currently suspended on full pay pending an enquiry. This is not an argument that can be ducked or avoided and it does not depend on what percentage of the population are muslims where you live. Lets not forget, the old rule of thumb that says that people who do not have large numbers of an ethnic group living near them are more likely to be prejudiced against them.....
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I'm really sorry to hear about this. Look after yourself!nwnm said:
<faith in humanity restored slightly>Fisher_Gate
Active Member
nwnm said:
As far as I'm aware no groups of workers went out on strike in support of Powell either - there were marches and petitions by some dockers and Smithfield Market porters, but from memory I'm not convinced there were what could accurately be called "strikes". IIRC the significant strike in this period was a few years later at Imperial Typewriters in Leicester where a group of black workers fought exclusionary practices through strike action, that eventually ushered in race equality legislation.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
nwnm said:
Fucking cocks. Sorry to hear that and hope you win.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I was so shocked by what nwnm said happened at work that I didn't repond earlier but I suppose I should.
I think this is a self serving (for the SWP) point. Racism, not fear or hatred of a religion or its adherents, is the pachyderm in the press. It is ironic though that the point should be raised in this way on the day that a bunch of racists get an exemplary sentence for a vicious racist murder in Glasgow with the community refusing to allow itself to be divided on racial lines.nwnm said:
That at any rate is true, a view backed up by research last year from IPPR.nwnm said:
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
If I can do anything to support you in your dispute please let me know. (PM me if necessary).nwnm said:you obviously missed this bit in the dave's part blog "The thing is, I bet the SWP could have mobilised nine more members if they had tried hard enough." Yep we could have had the majority at conference just by packing the meeting - that would not be the same as winning an argument about islamophobia or about the coalition verses party stuff <thankfully its still called a movement
Islamophobia <or to lets give it the old fashioned word Racism> as it stands is a direct result of the military presence in Afghanistan/Iraq for a start, and tends to be a running sore through just about every other issue. Even the tories can campaign on health and green issues and make New Labour look reactionary. what none of the other parties will do is tackle the reactionary crap about muslims stoked up by Jack Straw and co. at the same time as campaigning on other issues.
Why does it matter? Islamophobia is the elephant in the cupboard that many on the left don't want to even think about. You ignore it at your peril. The Jack straw comments have led to a witch - hunt against Muslims in the gutter press. Whilst it hasn't reached the furore that Enoch Powell's 'rivers of blood' speech did <no groups of workers went out on strike in support of Straw> it will find an echo within sections of the class; which is why it needs to be tackled head on and in an organised fashion. <This is also why the Stop the War Coalition are having a conference on the issue>.
This is not an abstract rant either. A week or so I had to tackle this argument head on at work with a particularly nasty bunch of racist bastards, who up until now would never have had the guts to come out with this sort of crap. After a long row about whether Muslim women should be allowed to wear their various head coverings at work, they decided shut up in the end. But several days later they obviously decided something had to be done about me, one of them made up a false complaint about me and I am currently suspended on full pay pending an enquiry. This is not an argument that can be ducked or avoided and it does not depend on what percentage of the population are muslims where you live. Lets not forget, the old rule of thumb that says that people who do not have large numbers of an ethnic group living near them are more likely to be prejudiced against them.....
Fullyplumped said:
What does your pachyderm quote mean? Google said it's a thick skinned animal, usually an elephant but I'm none the wiser..
On the wider issue, I think its hard to deny that Islamophobia is the main tool that is being used at the moment in an attempt to divide our side, and bolster support for the war on terror. It's not doing too well on the latter, but is having a degree of success on the former.
Yes I'm in the swp, and yes the statement backs up our political practice, but I think it's one of the ket aspects of uk politcs today - hardly a day gors by without some new statement eg the latest beinbg one that there are 'hundreds' of terror plots being monitored.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
"Pachyderm in the press" - synonym for nwnm's "elephant in the cupboard". A pachyderm is an elephant. A press is a cupboard or wardrobe. It's a word widely used among Scots and in NI if not so much in England and the US; and I liked the alliteration.mutley said:
The problem is racism, racism, racism. The SWP is trying to import its pet concept of islamophobia to a country where virtually nobody is impressed, and is trying to create a factional split among black and white people to feed the artificial new party it is currently playing with.
I didn't deliberately choose that verb, "feed", when I wrote that sentence, but it is shockingly appropriate!
Does the SWP think racism, and unity between black and white people, are obsolete concepts? They do seem to be inconvenient to its "political practice".
my post also said in brackets 'lets call it by its old fashioned word racism.' Some people claim that being islamophobic is nothing to do with racism just about religion <see the class war on religion thread for that - but please lets not derail this thread in that direction too much>. I would say it is a specific form of racism - like anti semitism - and therefore has to be identified and dealt with. Racism is an amorphous beast and we have to tackle it in the various forms in which it reinvents itself.
Trying to unite people against it can be a nightmare sometimes. Worst one I can remember was the Ely riots in Cardiff which sounded like the plot of a Spike Lee film, Long running dispute between greek shopkeeper and asian shopkeeper, which eventually started off with both white and mixed race kids targetting the Asians. Chuck in a bit of heavy handed policing and you end up with an anti police riot involving everyone!
What happened to that poor lad in Glasgow was terrible/beyond anyones worst nightmare. A Dark day to try and keep people united
Trying to unite people against it can be a nightmare sometimes. Worst one I can remember was the Ely riots in Cardiff which sounded like the plot of a Spike Lee film, Long running dispute between greek shopkeeper and asian shopkeeper, which eventually started off with both white and mixed race kids targetting the Asians. Chuck in a bit of heavy handed policing and you end up with an anti police riot involving everyone!
What happened to that poor lad in Glasgow was terrible/beyond anyones worst nightmare. A Dark day to try and keep people united
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Very impressed...I like that!Fullyplumped said:
Indeed. A couple of weeks ago the SWP organised an anti-Islamophobia rally in Glasgow, the posters were so bad I had to do a double take as I thought they were BNP ones. A big pic of a woman in a niqab together with two totally miserable looking women in hijabs. In my life I have seen only one Scottish woman wear a niqab. From what I heard of it, there was very few people there, including a couple of young muslim women who were pounced on and asked to speak as they wandered through George Square.
In the aftermath of the Firsat Dag killing, the SWP ran around Sighthill flypostering about kicking out Nazis, and no fascism here, all this in a really poor area which had just had an immense influx of people with various different backgrounds and cultures thrown into them, with no support services or additional funding.
If you oppose something non-existant you end up creating it, yes there is Islamophobia up here, as component part of a general racism, but it is no where near as significant as in England. One of the critical things I think is the impact of the national question, where muslims see no contradiction in describing themselves as Scottish, however hestitate to identify themselves as British identifying with a state which is currently involved in wars of aggression in predominently muslim countries...so up here, patriotism and anti-war sentiment go together, whereas in England they are antagonistic
q_w_e_r_t_y said:
A few things. That there is not a massive number of Muslim's in Scotland has been pointed out by various posters. But myself and Fullyplumped also agree on this statement:
"Lets not forget, the old rule of thumb that says that people who do not have large numbers of an ethnic group living near them are more likely to be prejudiced against them..... "
to which fully plumped replied
"That at any rate is true, a view backed up by research last year from IPPR."
Providing a link. That is why its important to raise awareness of the problem of islamophobia <and you are right it is a specific form of racism - one that has been heightened by the war on terror. The government lost the argument on the war, and have opted for the politics of the sewer instead. Anti semitism was a specific form of racism in the 1930's. It would have been an error not to have tackled this at the time and only concentrated on 'bread and butter' issues.>
your views that the impact of the national question, where muslims see no contradiction in describing themselves as Scottish, however hestitate to identify themselves as British and identifying with a state which is currently involved in wars of aggression in predominently muslim countries, so that patriotism and anti-war sentiment go together, whereas in England they are antagonistic is interesting. I think there are some elements of truth in this, but as a statement it is quite contradictary. Both Scottish and Welsh troops are "involved in wars of aggression in predominently muslim countries" and are part of that state, <I would also avoid using the word patriotism for national sentiment>. I am also sure you are right that muslims see no contradiction in describing themselves as Scottish<the SNP after all opposed the war as did Plaid Cymru in wales> , I think of myself as black and welsh <by birth> btw; but as a socialist and an internationalist by conviction.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Fullyplumped said:
WTF are you talking about? The SWP are trying to "create a factional split among black and white people"? Where? How? and why? >>>How would a divided WC aid a UNITY coalition?
It makes no sense.........the SWP do NOT, NOT, NOT, think racism, and unity between black and white people, are obsolete concepts? They are TOTALY convenient to its "political practice".
Got to admit though, havn't honestly got a clue WTF are you talking about?
Fisher_Gate said:
IIRC there were some strikes or work stoppages in the London docks. Left wing dockers (like Terry Barrett) whilst they were opposed to the action decided they wouldent go to work as they didnt want to create a precedent of crossing any possible picket lines.
BarryB
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I suggested that the importation to our country by the SWP and MAB of the notion of islamophobia, and the SWP's attempts to turn Tommy Sheridan's "Solidarity" party/movement/vanity project into a variant of Respect, are being done to promote the factional interests of the SWP.ResistanceMP3 said:
I suggested that the self-serving political practice of the SWP in Scotland is to try to create a factional split AMONG, not between, black and white people - sorry if there was a confusion - and to downplay racism as the issue.
Of course I understand that honest people in the SWP do not believe that racism, and unity between black and white people, are obsolete concepts, and I hope that the honest people in the SWP begin to take control of their organisation again, but you should be able to see why I asked the rhetorical question. However, I fear that the SWP is now essentially a cult and that its members are prepared to accept whatever reactionary pro-religion line their high heidyins dictate.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Coming soon to a theater near you - Tommy The Movie!
The production company formerly owned by Kirsty Wark, and recently taken over by the makers of Wife Swap, is talking to the main players about this. It would be presumably in the same vein as recent docudramas on Blunkett and Prescott, but they'll need to get them done and dusted before any charges are laid.
The production company formerly owned by Kirsty Wark, and recently taken over by the makers of Wife Swap, is talking to the main players about this. It would be presumably in the same vein as recent docudramas on Blunkett and Prescott, but they'll need to get them done and dusted before any charges are laid.
Sheridan yesterday confirmed the television talks. Asked who might portray him in a docudrama, he said: “If George Clooney is not available, then maybe George Formby could come back from the dead.”
Such larks!Fullyplumped said:
Or to put it another way, we are harder on the "I'm not racist but....." element of the class and that means tackling the most virulent form of racism of the day <whilst recognising it is not the only guise in which racism comes - just the most commonplace at the moment> which is Islamophobia. In the 1930's it was racism against jews, <anti semitism - or did the CP just invent that to recruit people in cable Street and have a bit of a ruck with the police?>, another religious group btw. In the 1950's/60's it was afro/carribbeans <a horrible catch all term IMO> and in the 1970's mainly asians <after the Ugandan Asian crisis particularly>
It is not the SWP which is importing islamophobia anywhere <and just how you think the politics of race takes place in a vacuum in scotland; completely cut off from the rest of the UK, is a mystery to me> It is the government aided and abbetted by the gutter press.....
see also interesting piece here
http://www.devolution.ac.uk/pdfdata/Briefing 24 - Hussain-Miller.pdf
http://www.devolution.ac.uk/pdfdata/Briefing 24 - Hussain-Miller.pdf
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
The Gang Hut has been sold
The SSP has sold off their Party HQ in Stanley Street, near the News of the World offices, in Glasgow.
They're not saying who bought it, or how much money they made, or how they're going to pay back Tommy Sheridan and the other Solidaritarians who stumped up the £110,000 it cost when they bought it in 2004.
The SSP has sold off their Party HQ in Stanley Street, near the News of the World offices, in Glasgow.
They're not saying who bought it, or how much money they made, or how they're going to pay back Tommy Sheridan and the other Solidaritarians who stumped up the £110,000 it cost when they bought it in 2004.
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