Sheridan abandons hope for the SSP and tries to form new party

[nwnm]

That cannot be true. Social Workers have explained that there are important programmatic differences between the SSP and Sheridan-Solidarity. The SSP is nationalist and Sheridan-Solidarity is not.


The difference is that Solidarity do not push independence to the top of the agenda over and above anti war work and the fall out of the 'war on terror'

On that basis, I have no problem with Sheridan's stance

 

[niclas]

The difference is that Solidarity do not push independence to the top of the agenda over and above anti war work and the fall out of the 'war on terror'

On that basis, I have no problem with Sheridan's stance

An independent socialist Scotland would immediately withdraw troops from imperialist adventures such as Iraq, arguably the most concrete way of achieving the aim of the anti-war movement.

SWP has fetishised the anti-war movement, ignoring the declining numbers attending the endless number of London marches.

 

[Wilf]

That cannot be true. Social Workers have explained that there are important programmatic differences between the SSP and Sheridan-Solidarity. The SSP is nationalist and Sheridan-Solidarity is not.


The difference is that Solidarity do not push independence to the top of the agenda over and above anti war work and the fall out of the 'war on terror'

On that basis, I have no problem with Sheridan's stance

Gotcha. That difference is quite profound. Amazed I didn't see it before.

And that's the thinnest sliver on which your sect currently hangs its attachment to Sheridan isn' it? (but more / )

 

[Udo Erasmus]

An independent socialist Scotland would immediately withdraw troops from imperialist adventures such as Iraq, arguably the most concrete way of achieving the aim of the anti-war movement.

.

Interestingly, Plaid Cymru, the neo-liberal party that Niclas is a member of, want a phased withdrawal of troops and to replace them with muslim troops and UN troops which would merely prolong the occupation of Iraq. That's right they want to take foreign troops out of Iraq and replace them . . . with more foreign troops!

See this thread:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=178733&page=4

 

[nwnm]

Gotcha. That difference is quite profound. Amazed I didn't see it before.

And that's the thinnest sliver on which your sect currently hangs its attachment to Sheridan isn' it? (but more / )

Some sliver - here's a more thought out reprise
http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=247&issue=112

 

[Fullyplumped]

Galloway plans to fight Sheridan

It just gets worser and worser. The Sunday Times is reporting that Respect will stand against Solidarity if Tommy Sheridan is charged with perjury.

“If Tommy gets charged then Respect will stand in Scotland,” said a source close to Galloway. “Tommy has long been George’s friend and will continue to be a friend, whatever happens, but if Tommy gets charged then that’s Solidarity dead and the most well-known person to lead the Respect campaign in central Scotland is obviously George. You have to look at where the votes might come from and where the SSP and Solidarity are not getting those.”​

The SWP is playing it both ways, if the Sunday Times story is true. And the Sunday Times could be lying, or mistaken. Maybe the SWP diesn't know about this and it's just "the leader of the Respect party" going alone.

It would be interesting to get some immediate reaction from SWP people here - before they can check in to get the line, of course - on what they think.

 

[JHE]

...a source close to Galloway...[said] "You have to look at where the votes might come from and where the SSP and Solidarity are not getting those."​

Really, if that's not what ('a source close to') GGG means, what the fuck does the old Islamophile goat mean?

 

[junius]

There must be more reformist sects in Scotland than there are actual trot groups.

Only trots could bring this about.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Some sliver - here's a more thought out reprise
http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=247&issue=112

The online version appears to end abruptly.

The part of the article that is there conveniently sidesteps a few issues:

1) that Sheridan had admitted to the SSP executive the allegations were true, but would still fight the libel case. But of course Gonzalez can't say this even though it is true, as his fellow SWP member would immediately be in court for committing perjury, and potentially the SWP itself for conspiracy;

2) that the SSP exec members were obliged by law to appear in court; the article claims they appeared for the NoTW, as if this was voluntary, and fails to mention that McCoombes had actually been to jail for defying the NoTW and courts.

3) that for three years the SWP stood outside the SSP refusing to join, even after Sheridan himself won a seat in the 1999 Holyrood election - an election the SWP contested under their own banner and perspectives with predicatably dire results

 

[Fisher_Gate]

It just gets worser and worser. The Sunday Times is reporting that Respect will stand against Solidarity if Tommy Sheridan is charged with perjury.

“If Tommy gets charged then Respect will stand in Scotland,” said a source close to Galloway. “Tommy has long been George’s friend and will continue to be a friend, whatever happens, but if Tommy gets charged then that’s Solidarity dead and the most well-known person to lead the Respect campaign in central Scotland is obviously George. You have to look at where the votes might come from and where the SSP and Solidarity are not getting those.”​

The SWP is playing it both ways, if the Sunday Times story is true. And the Sunday Times could be lying, or mistaken. Maybe the SWP diesn't know about this and it's just "the leader of the Respect party" going alone.

It would be interesting to get some immediate reaction from SWP people here - before they can check in to get the line, of course - on what they think.

They'll deny it of course ... then the day after Sheridan is committed for perjury it will appear, as if it was their line all along.

 

[mutley]

They'll deny it of course ... then the day after Sheridan is committed for perjury it will appear, as if it was their line all along.

It's the Sunday Times stupid...

I have no idea what the Scottish left will look like when all these bits hit the ground, and both the electoral and legal processes have finally run their course. If Sheridan gets totally buried, the SSP flounders and Respect makes progess in England then who knows - but that's a lot of ifs ( and its just one opinion - not having 'checked in' to anyone).

What I do know for certain is that the Sunday Times clearly has a strategy of attempting to shaft Sheridan by all means necessary. Making up sources 'close to GG' would be a minor matter. I mean who the fuck would give an unnattributable quote to the Murdoch press?

 

[JoePolitix]

McNeilage ate my brain

They'll deny it of course ... then the day after Sheridan is committed for perjury it will appear, as if it was their line all along.

Yes everything the Murdoch press says must be true - the miners were scum, the FBU were Saddam's stooges, liverpool fans did steel the wallets of the dead etc...

For fuck's sake.

 

[tollbar]

Its not a new story though is it ?. The Sundy Herald ran a story about the possibility of Respect standing in Scotland back before the split.

It will be interesting to see if any other papers follow up the ST story.

 

[junius]

Yes everything the Murdoch press says must be true - the miners were scum, the FBU were Saddam's stooges, liverpool fans did steel the wallets of the dead etc...

For fuck's sake.

So Joe, do you think there's nothing in the story?

 

[JoePolitix]

So Joe, do you think there's nothing in the story?

I'm suggesting that taking a quote from an unamed "source close to GG" from Murdoch's rat press as the truth and not subjecting it to any critical assessment is more daming of self styled "lefts" like Fishers-Gate than anybody else.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'm suggesting that taking a quote from an unamed "source close to GG" from Murdoch's rat press as the truth and not subjecting it to any critical assessment is more daming of self styled "lefts" like Fishers-Gate than anybody else.

I was looking for an example of the use of the term "leftier-than-thou"....!

 

[junius]

I'm suggesting that taking a quote from an unamed "source close to GG" from Murdoch's rat press as the truth and not subjecting it to any critical assessment is more daming of self styled "lefts" like Fishers-Gate than anybody else.

But let's face it - it's would not be the first time that unamed sources close to George have told the press of Respect's ambitions in Scotland.

I doubt very much it has anything to do with the SWP. Of course, their current silence on Tommy speaks volumes.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I'm suggesting that taking a quote from an unamed "source close to GG" from Murdoch's rat press as the truth and not subjecting it to any critical assessment is more daming of self styled "lefts" like Fishers-Gate than anybody else.

What about the previous quotes from named sources - Ron McKay and Galloway himself? Do you reckon they were made up? If so why weren't statements made denying them?

“George has not ruled out standing in another Westminster constituency but he is more likely to stand in the Scottish parliament and/or the European parliament. He gets a lot of requests to stand in Scotland, particularly as the SSP has weakened,” said Ron McKay, his spokesman.

“The triumph in Bethnal Green was because there was a large ethnic component and a highly dissatisfied electorate. If you had the same elements in Scotland then obviously he would do well.”

McKay said Galloway was close to Sheridan and had tried to persuade him, without success, to defect to Respect.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2090-2059383,00.html

Mr Galloway yesterday backed Mr Sheridan in an extraordinary showdown with Rosie Kane, the SSP MSP.

He said: "They had six MSPs, they had built a position in Scotland and they destroyed it in this peculiar spasm of Trotskyite Calvinism, of turning against Tommy Sheridan because a gutter newspaper made allegations about his personal life, which they should have walked past - instead they turned on Sheridan.

"Sheridan is the only political leader they have got that has the respect and affection of the public. If Rosie Kane was the leader of a political party in Scotland nobody would vote for it," he said.

Mr Galloway said other parties would be forced to fill the Socialist vacuum in Scotland, including his own Respect party.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=818&id=826872006

 

[audiotech]

Galloway is spot on with the Trotsyite Calvanism bit and this in particular:

"...If Rosie Kane was the leader of a political party in Scotland nobody would vote for it,"

 

[nwnm]

I doubt very much it has anything to do with the SWP. Of course, their current silence on Tommy speaks volumes.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/topic.php?topic_id=4

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=247&issue=112

http://www.istendency.net/pdf/IST_Discussion_Bulletin_8.pdf

Yeah our silence speaks volumes - numerous articles in socialist worker, stuff in our international discussion bulletin, and in the latest edition of international socialism. It must be difficult finding the light to do much reading what with your head being buried so far up your own arse.....

 

[refugee]

Galloway is spot on with the Trotsyite Calvanism bit and this in particular:

"...If Rosie Kane was the leader of a political party in Scotland nobody would vote for it,"

But he says " a gutter newspaper made allegations about his personal life, which they should have walked past " which is advice Sheridan should have taken. The others were dragged in by his false Calvanist outrage.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/topic.php?topic_id=4

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=247&issue=112

http://www.istendency.net/pdf/IST_Discussion_Bulletin_8.pdf

Yeah our silence speaks volumes - numerous articles in socialist worker, stuff in our international discussion bulletin, and in the latest edition of international socialism. It must be difficult finding the light to do much reading what with your head being buried so far up your own arse.....

It's a pity in this welter of comment you don't bother with the truth.

I had to pinch myself when I read this in a recent Socialist Worker ...

Overall, the campaign was poorly financed and organised. Emphasis was placed on the party stars, rather than the rank and file trade unionists and movement militants responsible for building the party.

Then I realised it was a criticism of the winning of 6.5 million votes (nearly 7%) and third place by Heloisa Helena, revolutionary socialist candidate for the President of Brazil....

I wonder what experience the SWP based this observation on? SSP or Respect?

 

[jackdoor]

Galloway speech

http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?ite=1196

Hear Galloway mangle Pastor Niemoller's poem

 

[nwnm]

I wonder what experience the SWP based this observation on? SSP or Respect?

probably the ssp judging by its declining vote after a good start.....

 

[Fisher_Gate]

probably the ssp judging by its declining vote after a good start.....

If Sheridan had decided to stay in the SSP, would the SWP also have continued to do so?

[I think we all know the answer is "yes"]

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Respect conference "remitted" the motion calling for support for Solidarity. SWP decided to back off from enforcing support for their divisive action.

 

[audiotech]

But he says " a gutter newspaper made allegations about his personal life, which they should have walked past " which is advice Sheridan should have taken. The others were dragged in by his false Calvanist outrage.

He took the bastards on and won. Unfortunately, instead of leaving it at that someone gave them more ammo and stuffed twenty grand in his back pocket.

Thanks a lot pal.

 

[sevenstars]

Defending the truth

Some honest appraisals.

http://www.redflag.org.uk/frontline/vol22/02contents.html

 

[junius]

He took the bastards on and won. Unfortunately, instead of leaving it at that someone gave them more ammo and stuffed twenty grand in his back pocket.

Thanks a lot pal.

Well rather than leaving it at that, he stuffed twenty grand of the Record's cash in his back pocket and branded his former comrades scabs. Thus, encouraging the accusations they had perjured themselves.

 

[JHE]

He took the bastards on and won. Unfortunately, instead of leaving it at that someone gave them more ammo and stuffed twenty grand in his back pocket.

'Leaving it at that'? Tommy shat all over his comrades and friends, dragging them into court and then defaming them as liars and perjurers and scabs when they wouldn't commit perjury for him. Not leaving it at that, he then split the SSP.

As for whether he has won in the courts... we shall see. I can't see how he is going to avoid a prison sentence, which is what he deserves.