Shayler - talk in Brixton - Wed. 2nd Nov.

[Pickman's model]

I've just checked my Gregg Reference Manual (6th edition, 1987) which insists there should be a comma before the 'and', or 'or', or 'nor', when writing lists.

"Study the rules for the use of the comma, the semicolon, and the colon."

It is american, but we've needed them to rid our own version of english of a lot of its stuffiness.

Anyway, back to shaylor in a minute teejay!

it's shayler, not shaylor.

 

[editor]

it's shayler, not shaylor.

Absolutely priceless!

 

[fela fan]

Absolutely priceless!

always good to provide a laugh for folk. Glad you're chuckling mate.

 

[Pickman's model]

Absolutely priceless!

after fela fan's display of uberpedantry, it had to be pointed out.

 

[fela fan]

after fela fan's display of uberpedantry, it had to be pointed out.

Fair enough man. I'll cop it.

 

[editor]

I've just checked my Gregg Reference Manual (6th edition, 1987) which insists there should be a comma before the 'and', or 'or', or 'nor', when writing lists.

For the sake of your students - and your credibility - I suggest you read the excellent "English for journalists" by Wynford Hicks.

Comma
Note that there is usually no comma before the 'and' at the end of a list of single words:

She said the same to James, Stephen, Mark and John.

 

[fela fan]

For the sake of your students - and your credibility - I suggest you read the excellent "English for journalists" by Wynford Hicks.

My credibility is absolutely sound. Yours is seriously in question. Look after your ownself.

Whoever this hicks man is, he's patently off his head. Or, if we want to be charitable, he's just plain wrong. Is he an expert, peer-reviewed writer? Does he hold evidence that others are so wrong about? Where's his proof? Where's yours? Where's your evidence?

He seems to have as much credibility as your mate vialls.

 

[tarannau]

For fuck's sake Fela, you're using a near 20-year old US grammar book to start pontificating from.

As I said in my last post, 'respectable' US publications and academia generally insists on more fussy and traditional grammar. Although it's changing, UK publications tend to be less archaic in their usage of commas and the suchlike, generally seeking to remove unnecessary punctuation.

Of course, you should know this, being a grammar expert and all. Instead you seem to be more than a little confused - see your last misguided posts about the US trying to make language less 'stuffy,' which may be true in conversation terms, but certainly isn't when it comes to written grammar. Your arrogant bluster doesn't disguise your lack of real knowledge.

 

[fela fan]

tarranau, get this, don't bother talking to me, coz i ain't fuckin interested, okay?

 

[editor]

Whoever this hicks man is, he's patently off his head. Or, if we want to be charitable, he's just plain wrong.

Seeing as The British Journalism Review described his book as an "admirably well written manual" and it's a recommended reference book at many universities and journalism courses, I'd say he makes you look pretty fucking stupid.

But we knew that anyway.

 

[tarannau]

tarranau, get this, don't bother talking to me, coz i ain't fuckin interested, okay?

Put me on ignore then fella. But you may want to start reading up about grammar before you start pushing your 'expert' credentials. I suspect you can't engage with the points regarding the difference between written American and British grammar because you simply haven't a clue. Go read a modern reference guide from both countries and compare the differences.

Hicks' book is very well regarded by the way, particularly amongst writers and literary professionals. Certainly as well regarded as The Gregg Reference Manual (upto the ninth edition now btw), which is more regarded as an all-round reference tool for American students (general) and businessmen IIRC.

Still, you wouldn't want to become properly informed would you. Better to bluster a load of arrogant tosh and hope no-one pulls you up on your lack of knowledge.

 

[Blagsta]

What an odd thread that turned into.

 

[TeeJay]

If it had been in the Brixton forum it would still have derailed - but in a different manner, probably involving Coldharbour Lane and wine bars or something.

 

[fela fan]

If it had been in the Brixton forum it would still have derailed - but in a different manner, probably involving Coldharbour Lane and wine bars or something.

Be good to hear from anyone who goes to see him though. Maybe it'll need another thread though!

 

[fela fan]

I'd say he makes you look pretty fucking stupid.

On this thread we've been rowing in the same boat mate. So that makes two of us. How does it feel to be 'fucking stupid' then eh?

 

[butchersapron]

But you haven't. Ah, who looks stupid now.

Do a proper insult.

 

[fela fan]

But you haven't. Ah, who looks stupid now.

Do a proper insult.

Mate, i really don't care what i look like. And i don't really do insults, only get caught up in them here on this web site, so no can oblige.

But your command did make me laugh. It's a good sentence.

 

[butchersapron]

So do one.

What's it called when a phrase or sentence has two meanings?

 

[butchersapron]

But mate we've been eating the same icecream all along. Who's looking silly now eh?

 

[fela fan]

So do one.

What's it called when a phrase or sentence has two meanings?

Go to bed. There, will that do?

And i'm unaware of any such word. Unless you're meaning polysemous, but that refers to a single word having more than one meaning. Which i'm sure you know, since i'm also sure you're testing me...

 

[fela fan]

But mate we've been eating the same icecream all along. Who's looking silly now eh?

Like i say, i don't care what anyone thinks i look like. If you want me to be silly, then silly i am. To editor i'm fucking stupid, and to someone else i am embarrassing.

Up to them all. Easy innit.

 

[laptop]

Whoever this hicks man is, he's patently off his head. Or, if we want to be charitable, he's just plain wrong.

I've known him for years. He is (a) as sane as they come; (b) right in this instance; and (c) smart.

 

[butchersapron]

Go to bed. There, will that do?

And i'm unaware of any such word. Unless you're meaning polysemous, but that refers to a single word having more than one meaning. Which i'm sure you know, since i'm also sure you're testing me...

You're not, never heard of ambiguity, irony (dramatic or otherswise), a pun, or any number of terms for a normal everyday thing...

In your new field aas well... hmmmm.....

 

[fela fan]

I've known him for years. He is (a) as sane as they come; (b) right in this instance; and (c) smart.

Ah look mate, i was caught up in yet another spat with editor, and all i wrote needs to be taken in context. That's how all communication works, as i'm sure you'll know.

I'm sure a and c are both correct, and he is also right in b.

But there is a growing awareness amongst writers - both journalists and academics - that putting a comma before the 'and' in lists is neater. Without one, confusion can sometimes occur, with one, no confusion ever. Keep an eye out for lists and see how many times these days you see a comma before 'and'.

And this is what it all boils down to: is the name of the game communication, or to abide by grammar rules laid down by this or that person? Who owns the language anyway? And don't forget, it's a living beast and changes with the times.

As a writer, and a teacher of writing, i feel it the duty of the writer to use the text to convey as accurately as possible their intended meaning. With the reader being displaced both by time and space, every possible tool at the writer's disposal should be used to convey that meaning.

btw, how many grammar 'rules' were broken by trainspotting? Was the text in that book 'wrong'??

 

[fela fan]

You're not, never heard of ambiguity, irony (dramatic or otherswise), a pun, or any number of terms for a normal everyday thing...

In your new field aas well... hmmmm.....

Your question to me indicated that you were looking for one particular word that described your double meaning sentence. Not several general ones.

Hey, why not add metaphors to your list.

As for your last sentence i'll ignore the pragmatic meaning you leave dangling in the air. I'm a nice man you see, and don't do insults...

 

[butchersapron]

So you meant yes then, not no?

 

[fela fan]

You're not, never heard of ambiguity, irony (dramatic or otherswise), a pun, or any number of terms for a normal everyday thing...

In your new field aas well... hmmmm.....

There's a lot of typos and grammar problems in that post mate. Mebbe time for bed no?

 

[fela fan]

So you meant yes then, not no?

Don't know to what you're referring.

 

[butchersapron]

There's a lot of typos and grammar problems in that post mate. Mebbe time for bed no?

Yet you replied to it and understood it earlier? Have you devolved between posts?

 

[fela fan]

Yet you replied to it and understood it earlier? Have you devolved between posts?

I never said i didn't understand it. I just thought, in the context that this thread has taken, i'd point out your english language problems, which i clearly put down to the time of night...

I'd reckon you mean another word than 'devolve' too. And the grammar of it is wrong too.

Not that i care about that, i like to see a bending of rules...