Settlers get the shit kicked out of them in Gaza!

[ViolentPanda]

Surely Zionism is inherently racist and exclusionist, being a form of racial nationalism and all

*sigh*.
You're talking about a form of Zionism, rather than having looked into the entire concept.

Before ever Theodor Herzl came along "Zionism" was just a dream in the hearts of Jews of having a "homeland", not somewhere they necessarily had to live, but something to fill a sense of emptiness that was there because most of the countries in which they lived treated them as aliens even when they were citizens of that country.
Zionism doesn't have to be a bout racial and religious exclusivity, any more than it has to be about re-establishing eretz Israel, all that is fundamentalist and nationalist baggage added on by zealots and other "interested parties".
IMO Zion can just as well exist in the heart of a single Jew as in any amount of square kilometres of geographical space. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't understand (or in some cases want to understand) that.

 

[red_hippy]

IMO Zion can just as well exist in the heart of a single Jew as in any amount of square kilometres of geographical space. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't understand (or in some cases want to understand) that.

right... as you said, in your opinion, therefore in your head. But undeniably in the reality faced by palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, and in the reality of the zionist lobby in the US that secures funding for the IDF Zionism is far from being some individual, spiritualistic concept about themselves... its a violent, repressive and racist political ideology, in whatever form it might take.

 

[spring-peeper]

Is the Israeli army going to leave those fine houses for the Palestinans to live in or are they gonna demolish them?

link

The Palestinian Authority says about 5% of settlement land was taken from private owners and will be returned to them. The remaining state land will be developed for housing, industry and agriculture with a massive injection of international aid.

 

[revol68]

be handed out to friends of the PA leadership no fucking doubt.

 

[ViolentPanda]

right... as you said, in your opinion, therefore in your head. But undeniably in the reality faced by palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, and in the reality of the zionist lobby in the US that secures funding for the IDF Zionism is far from being some individual, spiritualistic concept about themselves... its a violent, repressive and racist political ideology, in whatever form it might take.

Read some of my posts in the middle east forum before pontificating to me about the realities of what the Palestinian people face. I've made my position VERY clear about nationalist-Zionism. It stinks like fresh shit.

The form of Zionism you're talking about is nationalist-Zionism, what you, in bloom and bolshieboy appear to be saying is that any form of Zionism whatsoever, even one that doesn't espouse nationalism, racism and colonialism is racist, colonialist and nationalist.

I'm saying that you're talking bollocks.

 

[revol68]

i don't know much about zionism but if what your saying is that there are forms of Zionism not dependent on an actual nationalism (and if im corect i think i remeber some Zionists in the 19th century being opposed to people going to Palestine for some reaosn or another) then it seems daft that they are arguing that all zionism is nationalist and racist, when infact your quite happy to admit that the vast bulk of zionist ideology is racist. Your just pointing out that there are historically other currents of zionism that would reject the Israeli states claim ti legitimacy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i don't know much about zionism but if what your saying is that there are forms of Zionism not dependent on an actual nationalism (and if im corect i think i remeber some Zionists in the 19th century being opposed to people going to Palestine for some reaosn or another) then it seems daft that they are arguing that all zionism is nationalist and racist, when infact your quite happy to admit that the vast bulk of zionist ideology is racist. Your just pointing out that there are historically other currents of zionism that would reject the Israeli states claim ti legitimacy.

Exactly.

Hallelujah, someone got what I was saying!

Cheers!

 

[mears]

Good job we have you to correct our (sorry, 'the lefts') view with your ('the rights') considerably more reflective viewpoint. No irony here.

Refelective? I don't know. I think there is plenty of blame to go around in this conflict.

What say you?

 

[Gumbert]

Exactly.

Hallelujah, someone got what I was saying!

Cheers!

trouble is its exactly the kind of zionism that we are seeing today all to often, this thread being an indicator...now i'm not one for reading into or being brought up on spirituality... but me like the palestinians see the current form of militaristic nationalism -zionism- as the root cause of the trouble, along with US dolllars...

these fuckwits will go under the banner of zionism (the right to a homeland) will take heart from the position that certain strands of -the right to a homeland - zionism - deflects from their rule of thumb, which is steal more land, kill where its aceptable and have more babies quick...

therefore weakening the struggle against militaristic nationalism based on faith nevermind it being an affront to judaism...it being modern zionism.

and fuck me do they say it.... loud and clear "god gave me this land"...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

and id like to see the police use REAL force against them

You'd like that, would you?

 

[revol68]

oh rite so someone saying that the historical zionist movement had very differing strands within it, some of which would be absolutley horrified to see what was going on is Israel is to give comfort to militarist zionists and the actions of the Israeli state? And there was me just thinking that some groups in Israel draw on these strands to strenghten their opposition to the occupation. Ah well sure nothing quite like overlooking details in order to validate generalised bollox.

It wasn't like he was saying they were the dominant strains or anything ffs.

 

[Gumbert]

no he just looked at the individuals faith....

 

[Herbert Read]

I heard a rumour the WOMBLEs were gonna squat them as the ultimate solidarity action with the "precarious".

Is it wrong that I think the IDF should be let loose on those fucking CIRCA lot? We'd see how powerful the force of laugther was against a fucking Apache attack helicopter.

Only if they do the trots at the same time

 

[Loki]

Israeli soldiers have begun dragging protesters out of one of the most hardline Jewish settlements in Gaza on the second day of forced removals.

Thousands of troops moved in on the isolated central Gaza settlement of Kfar Darom at daybreak.

Troops may also face stiff resistance from another large crowd holed up at a synagogue in Neve Dekalim.

Israel is unilaterally pulling its settlers and troops out of the Gaza Strip, which it has held since 1967.

More than half of the 21 Gaza settlements were cleared on Wednesday, the first day of the operation, with many settlers sobbing or shouting defiantly as they were ordered out.

Israeli officials say the mission is going faster than expected and may be over within days, instead of the scheduled six weeks.

The army has told Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that about 70% of settlers have left or been removed, Israel Radio reported on Thursday morning.


Although they say troops, this is a kid-glove operation, rather different from the treatment Palestinians have faced when forcibly evicted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4161584.stm

 

[ViolentPanda]

no he just looked at the individuals faith....

Smugness often occurs in tandem with ignorance.

 

[rednblack]

i notice the whinging scum are getting paid 200k + to relocate, and still they cry and set themselves on fire

wankers

 

[ViolentPanda]

i notice the whinging scum are getting paid 200k + to relocate, and still they cry and set themselves on fire

wankers

Fuck me but you're a giant of emotional maturity, aren't you?

You can fulminate against the settlers without descending into childish spite, you know.

 

[cemertyone]

Excellent news, how does it feel to be on the end of those IDF issue boots, eh, you fucking bigoted wankers?

About time.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1549673,00.html

Could not agree more PK....fucking excellent news.........get back to NEW YORK where you where born you FUCKING TRASH>>>>>

 

[HarrisonSlade]

Now that the Israelis have been told to get out of the West Bank, does that now mean that homosexuality will be illegal there, and women will have to wear great big hooded masks for fear of getting beaten by the cops or by their husband, fathers, brothers, etc? Just wondered.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Youll be hard pressed to find the settlers having progressive views on anything, sexuality and gender included. Good riddance to them.

The British in India banned the practice of Sati, the burning of widows on the funeral pyres of their husbands. No doubt when the Brit troops finally pulled out of India there were people like yourself warning how the Indians couldn't be trusted to run things in a civilised western fashion.

 

[Ryazan]

I have never known any settlers in Gaza, have you? I suppose you must have, to make such a large claim.

 

[spring-peeper]

i notice the whinging scum are getting paid 200k + to relocate

iirc, not all of the settlers are eligible for compensation. Darned if I can remember where I read it or the percentage. But I do remember thinking that it was a high percentage and that ALL of these people should be eligible for the same compensation.

I wait to be corrected.

(mainly because I'm too darn lazy to google it - slow internet connection, really really ssslllloooowwww page load up and the text is always the last to load)

 

[Barking_Mad]

I wonder what will happen politically to those young settlers who have been forced out. I wonder if this will lead to a radicalisation of many of them, possibly turning them to violence?

It's all very sad.

 

[spring-peeper]

There was an interesting story on BBC world last night about the Palestine Refugee camps in Lebannon.

There are currently no plans to move them back into Palestine.

I really hope that they can, some of the kids shown (10-12 yrs) were born at those camps.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Just shown some bizarre pictures on Channel 4 of Israeli youths throwing stones at IDF troops. And people spraying troops with what was thought to be acid.

The height of irony.

 

[redsquirrel]

Now that the Israelis have been told to get out of the West Bank

They haven't (it's the Gaza Strip that is having it's settlements dismantled) as you'd actually know if you read the thread rather than just attempted some lame trolling. In fact building is going on in the West Bank ATM.

 

[Loki]

Just shown some bizarre pictures on Channel 4 of Israeli youths throwing stones at IDF troops. And people spraying troops with what was thought to be acid.

The height of irony.

More info on that.

Kfar Darom is a small settlement in central Gaza, where resistance to the pullout has been particularly strong.

Unarmed police first entered the synagogue, where hundreds of protesters had been resisting eviction.

Riot troops then stormed the rooftop, where young protesters had remained behind coils of barbed wire.

The troops battled the activists who pelted them with sand, foam and liquid.

Several officers returned to the ground after acid was thrown at them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4161584.stm

These people really are off the deep end.

 

[spring-peeper]

I hope that none of the "little darlings" get harmed by the troops.

Imagine the public outcry!!!

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Now if they were really up on their history of Judea they'd emulate the genuine heroes with Eleazar at Masada and commit suicide. Fat chance though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Now if they were really up on their history of Judea they'd emulate the genuine heroes with Eleazar at Masada and commit suicide. Fat chance though.

Fat chance indeed. The Masad'ites fought the Romans until they could fight no more, and only then killed themselves. Many of the settlers haven't been on the receiving end of anything more than a harsh word from the police previously, and haven't the faintest idea about how to deal with them.