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Settlers get the shit kicked out of them in Gaza!

Gumbert said:
this is what i was getting at though you yourself dont mention the word *zionist* do you...


Well, Zionism is the manifestation of that radicalization, but it is incidental to the fact that radicalization occurred.
 
energy said:
Well, Zionism is the manifestation of that radicalization, but it is incidental to the fact that radicalization occurred.

Gumbert is obsessed with zionism hes like david icke and lizards :D

He has no problem is sucking up to islamic terrorits and what not in wespect though!
 
energy said:
Well, Zionism is the manifestation of that radicalization, but it is incidental to the fact that radicalization occurred.
so let me get this straight... Due to the pogroms that date back to prussian times etc jews became 'radicalised'...in what way? and i do mean politically speaking....
 
Our CBC news reporters or something are on strike so our 6 o'clock news is the BBC (yea..we get the good stuff).

They spent a lot of time on the Gaza story.

It didn't look that violent - I've seen a heck of a lot worse.

I got the impression that the Isreali police were being very professional about the whole thing. But they are not going to take any crap. They have a job to do, and will do it.

On a personal note - I never thought that this would happen in my life time. I feel uplifted by the current events and pray that this is the start of some type of peaceful co-existance for that troubled area (and, yes - I am incredibly nieve)
 
Gumbert said:
so let me get this straight... Due to the pogroms that date back to prussian times etc jews became 'radicalised'...in what way? and i do mean politically speaking....


FFS, the programs that happened in the 1880s, 1890s, 1900s, 1910s, anti-semitism in many countries, and everything that has happened since: holocaust, fighting with Palestinians and Arab states, internal conflicts between Jews, etc. :rolleyes: It all adds up, like a snowball rolling down a hill.
 
energy said:
Actually, I'm watching Israeli TV channel 1 http://mabat.iba.org.il

No subjective viewpoints there then... :rolleyes:

They have a live TV news feed at the moment. It's very hard to get access, and I keep losing the link, but it seems that no-one is getting anything kicked out of them.

Maybe the link gets lost at precisely the point when the kickings are taking place?

That picture doesn't prove anything.

No, course not. *pats energy on the head*

So you and your porno-violence fantansies can fuck off!

Porno-violence now is it?

QUICK! Look the other way!

"More than 800 were arrested earlier as police fought hundreds of pullout opponents who pelted them with eggs, stones and plastic water bottles.

One policeman had burning acid thrown at his face and several people had bloody faces."

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=119669&Sn=WORL&IssueID=28150

:D
 
energy said:
FFS, the programs that happened in the 1880s, 1890s, 1900s, 1910s, anti-semitism in many countries, and everything that has happened since: holocaust, fighting with Palestinians and Arab states, internal conflicts between Jews, etc. :rolleyes: It all adds up, like a snowball rolling down a hill.
and zionism is still only incidental?
 
mears said:
No, but historical ties to the land go back thousands of years on both sides.
What a load of crap. The statement is meaningless. If we go back thousands of years there won't be anyone who doesn't have historical ties with everyone else and everywhere on the planet (except for Antarctica).
 
redsquirrel said:
What a load of crap. The statement is meaningless. If we go back thousands of years there won't be anyone who doesn't have historical ties with everyone else and everywhere on the planet (except for Antarctica).



No, that's not true. Do you, your family, and your ancestors pray in the direction of Antarctica?
 
Don David Ovich said:
seven of his brothers and sisters had been murdered by the Nazis in Auschwitz. "Some compare Sharon to the Nazis. I say you can't compare because the Nazis weren't as bad as Sharon. The Nazis didn't fight their own people," he said.

Homos, pikeys, retards and commies? Some of em were Germans, right. This guy is a holocaust-gimp.
 
Gumbert said:
AH, i get you, i think... Zionism is radicalised jews?



Radicalization occurred, and Zionism developed as a consequence. That is why there have been many different Zionist sub-ideologies over the years, some of which are very different from others.
 
mears said:
Its a complicated situation as most conflicts are complicated.

Not for the European left however, its all cut and dry for them. Like a child they have figured it all out. Palestinians good, Israelis bad.

Mighty intellectuals I tell you.


Good job we have you to correct our (sorry, 'the lefts') view with your ('the rights') considerably more reflective viewpoint. No irony here.
 
Dyno said:
I heard on the radio this morning that some Iraeli woman set herself on fire!

Wierd - I thought that was more of a buddah thing.

Not too sure of this, but isn't suicide against their religion?

No heaven for her!!!
 
Gumbert said:
and zionism is still only incidental?

Zionism was ONE consequence of the violent anti-Semitism that was prevalent throughout Europe and the Russian empire in the second half of the 19th century. Other consequences were the codification of left and autonomous political thought such as Marxism and some forms of Anarchism.
Herzl was an opportunist who chose his time well. That is all.
 
energy said:
Radicalization occurred, and Zionism developed as a consequence. That is why there have been many different Zionist sub-ideologies over the years, some of which are very different from others.

Quite.

I get sick of having to explain to people that it's a particular form of nationalist-Zionism that is behind the current troubles, and not Zionism per se.
 
ViolentPanda said:
I get sick of having to explain to people that it's a particular form of nationalist-Zionism that is behind the current troubles, and not Zionism per se.
Except there is no non-nationalist or for that matter non-racist Zionism. It is inherently a colonial ideology.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Quite.

I get sick of having to explain to people that it's a particular form of nationalist-Zionism that is behind the current troubles, and not Zionism per se.

My Grandmother said it was a dreadful shame that the old Labour Zionists were ousted in the 70s. She thinks that Israel would have handled things very very differently had they remained in power, esp. re. expansion and extra-judicial killings, but as life is not built on ifs and maybes...

Right now, on the live feed, grown men are crying as they are forced to leave.
There's no violence that I can see. Just broken dreams and futile struggling.
I hope this brings some empathy from the Jewish side for the Palestinian's who suffered for the love of this currently accursed land.
 
bolshiebhoy said:
Except there is no non-nationalist or for that matter non-racist Zionism. It is inherently a colonial ideology.

That's interesting.

So you're saying that the various forms of collectivist Zionism which may or may not have involved the "re-settlement" of Israel, are all racist, colonialist and nationalist?

Care to elucidate?

As you can probably tell, I'd be very interested to hear your answer.
 
Is the Israeli army going to leave those fine houses for the Palestinans to live in or are they gonna demolish them?
 
I heard a rumour the WOMBLEs were gonna squat them as the ultimate solidarity action with the "precarious".

Is it wrong that I think the IDF should be let loose on those fucking CIRCA lot? We'd see how powerful the force of laugther was against a fucking Apache attack helicopter. :D
 
ViolentPanda said:
That's interesting.

So you're saying that the various forms of collectivist Zionism which may or may not have involved the "re-settlement" of Israel, are all racist, colonialist and nationalist?

Care to elucidate?

As you can probably tell, I'd be very interested to hear your answer.
Surely Zionism is inherently racist and exclusionist, being a form of racial nationalism and all :confused:
 
Loki said:
Is the Israeli army going to leave those fine houses for the Palestinans to live in or are they gonna demolish them?

their demolishing them... presumably until it becomes politically viable for them to re-settle the area. Either way, you can be sure as hell that there won't be any palestinians living there
 
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