Selling Out: Where is the line crossed?

[DotCommunist]

Tobacco firms are wrong ens they knew the stuff killed years before they admitted and have moved into the poor world big time as its kind of hard to get away with their shit in rich bit these days.

Baliffs, screws, police etc. Unless Human nature radically changes your always going need to have someone to go "Oi stop your out of order" and enforce societys rules. Because some people are lazy or stressed or just not thinking.

the military mind at its most incisive

 

[chilango]

What, like a pension?

...maybe.

Where's the line?

 

[chilango]

fuck me, no.

Good man.

 

[DotCommunist]

its a bit like asking yourself if you are middle class- if you have to ask you are.

If you pause to think 'this isn't right is it?' then it probably isn't.

Be guided by jesus and the levellers

 

[Maurice Picarda]

you'd just end up with a home grown/brewed industry.

Less likely to recruit new users. Cottage industries are crap at growing their markets.

 

[DotCommunist]

Less likely to recruit new users. Cottage industries are crap at growing their markets.

yes, during the medieval period there was never an endemic drinking and smoking culture (and don't give me 'new world' there were plenty of smoked herbal things in europe before they got the baccy plant brought home)

 

[SpookyFrank]

Collection is a necessary consequence of debts. Unfair and exploitative lending practices are the more important issue.

We've just been dealing with some debt collectors. They were masquerading as bailiffs to trick us into thinking they had the right to enter someone's home and take their stuff. They also added charges to the original debt, increasing it from around 100 pounds to over 400 in the space of about a fortnight.

That's not defensible behaviour. It is criminal behaviour. And it is certainly not separate from unfair lending practices, it's all part of the same scam. The lenders are the carrot, the bailiffs are the stick.

 

[Nice one]

sleaford mods playing glastonbury

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Selling out = doing anything/saying anything/thinking anything that the comrades (range of of choice) don't approve of.

 

[DotCommunist]

Selling out = doing anything/saying anything/thinking anything that the comrades (range of of choice) don't approve of.

its can you meet your own eye in the mirror when shaving.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

its can you meet your own eye in the mirror when shaving.

Quite right comrade

 

[brogdale]

Inspired by the RTB thread.

At what do you consider the line is crossed into "selling out"?

Does it actually matter anyway?

I think that such lines can matter a great deal to people, but over-sensitivity toward such matters can be divisive.

I was determined never to work for an organisation that generated profit, but then my state education had equipped me with the means to choose to do that. Later in my career as a state-school teacher I became increasingly disturbed by the fact that I was operating as some sort of state agent of social control. Obviously, I worked in such a way to mitigate against such a role but nonetheless it shows that such 'lines' can change and some of us have far more life chances to identify 'lines' and not cross them.

ATM I have a deep sense of 'crossing a line' every time I'm compelled to shop.

Ramble over.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Unless Human nature radically changes your always going need to have someone to go "Oi stop your out of order" and enforce societys rules. Because some people are lazy or stressed or just not thinking.

And when the enforcers are lazy, stressed or just not thinking? Or when they're just complete arseholes? What happens then?

 

[Steel Icarus]

 

[dishevelled]

Care to expand on that?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I agree about it being a laudable job, but why should the police employ civilians to do what is essentially their job? Cost and use of resources. They should do it themselves.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

So:

Owning a "buy to let"
Becoming management
Having a "portfolio of investments"
Employing a cleaner
Sending your kids to private school

These are all bad things. But they are all things that friends of mine have done. For me the big thing personally is sending your kid to a private school, so people who have done that are less likely to be my friend. But a couple still are.

I've had mates in the past who went off to become cops and we both knew that we would be seeing a lot less of each other.

I think the big question for me is - what should this mean, socially? Should stuff like this just generate muttering behind people's backs or should it mean more than that?

The RTB/socialism thread was interesting because it seemed to be suggesting that just because someone had bought their council flat in the 80s they should be excluded from calling themselves a socialist - and presumably from taking part in socially progressive political action. That's 1.5 million households in the UK who "shouldn't" be involved with trade unions, going on demonstrations, etc?

 

[Quartz]

private schools out- its direct transference of privilege.

What if you were in the catchment area of a totally shit state school and couldn't move and had the funds or the child got a scholarship?

 

[DotCommunist]

middle class dilemnas

 

[likesfish]

And when the enforcers are lazy, stressed or just not thinking? Or when they're just complete arseholes? What happens then?

Hopefully you'd have accountability and an open system of oversight so the arseholes get stopped and mistakes dealt with.

 

[DotCommunist]

Hopefully you'd have accountability and an open system of oversight so the arseholes get stopped and mistakes dealt with.

 

[likesfish]

those jobs are like sewarge work or binmen a dirty job but somebodys got to do it.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

What if you were in the catchment area of a totally shit state school and couldn't move and had the funds or the child got a scholarship?

If it's not good enough for my child then it's not good enough for any child...and it's a inequality I can do something about by staying within the universalist provision and tring to make it work better.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. the scholarship wouldn't make my child better/more deserving just more able at passing tests.

 

[danny la rouge]

Supporting the Lib Dems.

 

[DotCommunist]

and moving to a better catchement area to get your kid in a better state school is gaming the system to overall bad effect- see also going to church for three weeks so you can get your kid in the local faith school. Ends up with the cherry picking

 

[DotCommunist]

those jobs are like sewarge work or binmen a dirty job but somebodys got to do it.

Are you familiar with the comic book character The Punisher and the concept of utalitarianism?

 

[danny la rouge]

What if you were in the catchment area of a totally shit state school and couldn't move and had the funds or the child got a scholarship?

Do you think the thing to do would be to abandon that school and its pupils to their fate, or fight tooth and nail to make that school better?

(And who has the funds to pay private fees but "can't move"?)

 

[Ax^]

Shopping at Waitrose

 

[SpookyFrank]

Hopefully you'd have accountability and an open system of oversight so the arseholes get stopped and mistakes dealt with.

Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[brogdale]

Shopping at Waitrose

Free (to customer) coffee & (heavily) reduced items exempted...I hope.

 

[campanula]

I would probably say I am about even - I did send my kids to private school (scholarships) but did not buy my council house (even though we could have done) and am now fucked.