Secular Buddhism

[zora]

I have mentioned this on another thread, but it might be of interest here: The London Buddhist Centre is running an excellent programme of daily zoom meditation and yoga classes, most of them free/donation-based; has supported me greatly in these trying times.

What's On | Meditation, Buddhism & Yoga

Learn to meditate, find out about Buddhism, practice yoga by coming to one of our classes, courses or retreats at the London Buddhist Centre.

londonbuddhistcentre.com

 

[han]

Hi danny la rouge .Thanks for alerting me to this thread. It's a great one, bursting with interesting ideas.

I've never heard of Secular Buddhism before, but it really ties in with what I believe.

What a great bunch of books and resources you've listed - alot of stuff to check out, which I'll definitely do.

Personally, I have an ebb and flow between having a regular meditation practice, and not having one. I definitely notice the difference in my mental health if I have long periods of not meditating (like I've had recently), so I'm getting back into it again.

Re mindfulness, I see mindfulness, unlike meditation, as something we do all the time, or at least aim to. To be in a state of present moment awareness as much as we can. I find these moments transformative and healing, and I feel that present moment awareness is the key to eliminating suffering.

It’s a reference to the Buddhist idea that we create stories to tie together situations and emotions, but forget that the story is only an interpretation of the combined emotion and situation, not a fact.

For example, I notice a friend on the other side of the street, and so smile and wave. I’m feeling a bit down. My friend doesn’t look at me, and keeps walking.

I start to think “what have I done to upset Emily? How can I put it right?” Before long it is a fact that Emily is upset with me, rather than she didn’t notice me, she was in a hurry to get to a hospital appointment she was worried about, or someone else had hailed her at the same time, and I hadn’t noticed. What we do is go home thinking “I’ve lost another friend. I’m a loser”.

The only facts here are “Emily didn’t notice me” and “I’m feeling a bit down”. The rest is only a story. We need to start to separate out the story from the observable facts. This is one of the skills of mindfulness.

These words of yours really resonated with me. When I'm going through times when I don't meditate, or when I am less frequently in states of present moment awareness, I find this 'story' thing does happen with me. Inventing stories in my head about why people are behaving in a certain way.

When I am more mindful, this doesn't happen. So it's clear to me that a peaceful mind is about acceptance and observation of situations. And others are a mirror of ourselves.

Do you know the books of Pema Chodron? She's a Buddhist nun, and I love her books. They've got great titles like 'When things fall apart' and 'Start where you are'. I also love The Power Of Now by Eckhart Tolle, but it has a high cheese factor!

 

[han]

I have mentioned this on another thread, but it might be of interest here: The London Buddhist Centre is running an excellent programme of daily zoom meditation and yoga classes, most of them free/donation-based; has supported me greatly in these trying times.

What's On | Meditation, Buddhism & Yoga

Learn to meditate, find out about Buddhism, practice yoga by coming to one of our classes, courses or retreats at the London Buddhist Centre.

londonbuddhistcentre.com

,Fab thanks!

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

My practice totally fell apart with the pandemic. I think I've done maybe three sitting meditations in the last year. I do a lot of yoga, which does sort of plug the mindfulness gap, but my personality is certainly suffering for the lack of proper sitting meditation - I'm grumpier, snappier, less generous.

 

[danny la rouge]

Do you know the books of Pema Chodron? She's a Buddhist nun, and I love her books.

Yes. Start Where You Are is good, but I haven’t read anything else by her.

 

[han]

my personality is certainly suffering for the lack of proper sitting meditation - I'm grumpier, snappier, less generous.

Interesting.
I've experienced a similar thing. I was meditating alot during the first lockdown and felt in a good state of mind. But in recent months I've done almost none and it's resulted in me being much more over sensitive to other people.

 

[krtek a houby]

Thanks for the thread, danny. Head is all over the place lately and the only peace was zoning out to the chants at mother in law's funeral. It was moving, even though couldn't understand the words.

We light a candle and incense every day for something like 49 days, strike a gong and say a prayer or thought for her.

We'd rather have her back with us, obviously, but the little rituals are calming.

 

[Brainaddict]

I have mentioned this on another thread, but it might be of interest here: The London Buddhist Centre is running an excellent programme of daily zoom meditation and yoga classes, most of them free/donation-based; has supported me greatly in these trying times.

What's On | Meditation, Buddhism & Yoga

Learn to meditate, find out about Buddhism, practice yoga by coming to one of our classes, courses or retreats at the London Buddhist Centre.

londonbuddhistcentre.com

Though it's worth pointing out that (as above) LBC is emphatically not secular. They have a habit of pulling people in with meditation and yoga classes and then before you know it you're doing pujas at shrines featuring the photo of abusive weirdo Dennis Lingwood. My impression is they created a westernised buddhism which is its own religion, not really very related to the religions of Asia but mostly definitely a religion in its own right.

 

[danny la rouge]

Though it's worth pointing out that (as above) LBC is emphatically not secular. They have a habit of pulling people in with meditation and yoga classes and then before you know it you're doing pujas at shrines featuring the photo of abusive weirdo Dennis Lingwood. My impression is they created a westernised buddhism which is its own religion, not really very related to the religions of Asia but mostly definitely a religion in its own right.

There does seem to be a few sexual predators who create a following for themselves in the general arena of yoga/mediation/etc. It’s a good reminder that anyone in a position of power needs to be treated warily, and that we need good ideas not gurus and heroes.

 

[BigMoaner]

Some post danny la rouge. If it works for you, brilliant.
I do wonder if Buddhism is a religion or a way of life.
If I had to make a choice, Buddhism is a path I would look at, alas, like most beliefs like this, it has its flaws.

An experiential exploration of consciousness, when it's at its best, i would pretentiously say. Careful though, there are many pitfalls in the "path" in my view. People can loose sight of the normal and relative and get lost in addiction to transcendence (transcendance being a nonsense in many forms of Buddhism - immanence instead, Samsara and Nirvana are the same). Zen is the best form of Buddhism I would say that avoids this. Also the Headless Way by Douglas Harding is as direct as direct can be - no sutras and mantras and sitting for hours. But it takes practice and expect years of cognitive dissonance as one integrates the "insights" into normal life.

Zen is one of great intellectual mechanisms of man kind, in my experience. Almost irrefutable as a philosophy. Just remember still mind is Zen, wandering mind is also Zen

 

[Brainaddict]

There does seem to be a few sexual predators who create a following for themselves in the general arena of yoga/mediation/etc. It’s a good reminder that anyone in a position of power needs to be treated warily, and that we need good ideas not gurus and heroes.

Yep, and some of the non-leaders can also be dodgy too. Vulnerable people are sometimes drawn to things like buddhism and there are those who will hanging around keeping a sharp eye out for them so they can take advantage. A former member of these boards was involved with Triratna a bit, and while she didn't have problems with the leaders there were a couple of well dodgy people - sometimes initiated into the order - who it would have been better to steer well clear of. Triratna run the buddhafields festival and I suspect that as usual a free-and-easy hippy fest can also cross over into dodgy people taking advantage. It's hard for a community to do good self-policing when they're mostly quite impressed with their own progression towards enlightenment.

 

[BigMoaner]

Really enjoy the Buddhist cross over in Heidegger. He was Buddhist in many ways. One of his quotes that I think of at least once a day "We don't come to thought, thought comes to us". Really get that phrase and it's meaning and the mind is blown (and stays blown).

 

[danny la rouge]

A former member of these boards was involved with Triratna a bit, and while she didn't have problems with the leaders there were a couple of well dodgy people

I’m generally wary of Triratna, as it happens.

 

[BigMoaner]

i know he's not popular in many buddhist circles but this video authentically, genuinely, irreversibly changed my life. literally woke up the next day a different person. I had been playing for a while with the concept of no-self and meditation and this bought everything home. it was literally direct pointing and transmission! I still go back to it now and then. it literally changed the whole structure of my being. only 10 mins or so

 

[han]

i know he's not popular in many buddhist circles but this video authentically, genuinely, irreversibly changed my life. literally woke up the next day a different person. I had been playing for a while with the concept of no-self and meditation and this bought everything home. it was literally direct pointing and transmission! I still go back to it now and then. it literally changed the whole structure of my being. only 10 mins or so

Wow. There's a testimonial! Will check out. Thanks for sharing.

 

[han]

Yes. Start Where You Are is good, but I haven’t read anything else by her.

When Things Fall Apart is really, really good. I bought it before the pandemic started so it really came in useful when that all kicked in

 

[BigMoaner]

Wow. There's a testimonial! Will check out. Thanks for sharing.

having read tons of books on Buddhism, having listened to hours of dewy eyed know-it all masters droning on, nothing i have come across has put it all into place like that short video. I know he's associated with all kinds of woo (although he was vehemently anti woo), to me that speech of his goes down as one of the greatest pieces of writing on ontology and religion out there.

 

[han]

i know he's not popular in many buddhist circles but this video authentically, genuinely, irreversibly changed my life. literally woke up the next day a different person. I had been playing for a while with the concept of no-self and meditation and this bought everything home. it was literally direct pointing and transmission! I still go back to it now and then. it literally changed the whole structure of my being. only 10 mins or so

This is absolutely beautiful.
Everything is one, we are all each other, ommm
Nothing to attain, to reach. We can just observe what is.

 

[BigMoaner]

This is absolutely beautiful.
Everything is one, we are all each other, ommm
Nothing to attain, to reach. We can just observe what is.

don't even have to do that

Whether we are observing the present moment or not, it's still the present moment. you can't get out of it.

Nothing to attain or nothing to reach, because there's nothing/nobody there to attain or reach it. it's like seeing implies a seer, and thinking implies a thinker. but if you look it's just thinking, just seeing. it happens by itself. even willful thoughts such as "i am going for a bath" come out of nowhere. No controller, no picker of thoughts. and if it appears that there is a picker of thoughts, the "I am picking thoughts" also comes out of nowhere and is automatic.

a complete headfuck that lasts forever!

 

[8ball]

... even willful thoughts such as "i am going for a bath" come out of nowhere. No controller, no picker of thoughts. and if it appears that there is a picker of thoughts, the "I am picking thoughts" also comes out of nowhere and is automatic.

Aside from the way some of this reads like “homunculus” logic, I usually find thoughts aren’t so nebulous in their causes.

 

[han]

don't even have to do that

Whether we are observing the present moment or not, it's still the present moment. you can't get out of it.

Nothing to attain or nothing to reach, because there's nothing/nobody there to attain or reach it. it's like seeing implies a seer, and thinking implies a thinker. but if you look it's just thinking, just seeing. it happens by itself. even willful thoughts such as "i am going for a bath" come out of nowhere. No controller, no picker of thoughts. and if it appears that there is a picker of thoughts, the "I am picking thoughts" also comes out of nowhere and is automatic.

a complete headfuck that lasts forever!

Fuuuuuuuuuuuck!

 

[BigMoaner]

Aside from the way some of this reads like “homunculus” logic, I usually find thoughts aren’t so nebulous in their causes.

that we are predistined? i don't believe that at all. But what ever I am, happens by itself. I can prove this (sadly only to myself) time and time over.

 

[BigMoaner]

and even apparently wilful thoughts such as "right, time to go for a walk" come out of nowhere. there is no prior within me (that I am aware of). it's the first causes problem again. there's absolutely nothing, nothing at all, in terms of a "controller" that is doing all this behind my eyes. but something is doing it.

you're staring at the laptop now and then say "I am seeing". so being comes first, the claiming of being comes secondary. subjectivity does not lead being around by the hand. rather being, including thought, leads subjectivity (what ever that is in the absoloute sense) by the hand.

it happens by itself!

 

[8ball]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuck!

I thought this was an “unfucking our heads” thread, too.

 

[BigMoaner]

stare at something, i dunno a flower, or old boot, or something. just the act of seeing.

the way we are formed, trained, conditioned (probably for evolutionary means) is to then say "I am seeing the flower/boot etc". there is someone looking from behind my eyes.

but with just the seeing the seer becomes the seen. the experiencer becomes the experience. as said though we are trained to claim the seeing/experience with thought. that's my seeing. that's my experience. but prior to those thoughts there is just existence/being itself - so the seer becomes the seen.

as i say irrefutable. other than heidegger's analogy of being "chucked down here" by someone or something, i don't know how this can be refuted. Schopenheur got to grips with it with his Will and his reading of the Upanishads. You're it. meditation can remind oneself of it but striving for some sort of attainment beyond that is a ball ache in my view. inside that mystery there is nothign really to attain because you will never get to grips with it ultimately. how can you improve on something that doesn't exist in the first place? the self becomes a mere construction, a passing joke, but it's also part of it too. everything is.

 

[BigMoaner]

far out man.

 

[BigMoaner]

or as the old zen story goes of the dude who went to the buddha and said "look i have cleaned the mirror of my mind, scrubbed it so all the dust is off. i have a clear mirror and am a good buddha"

and buddha says "there is no mirror so where can dust settle?"

 

[8ball]

or as the old zen story goes of the dude who went to the buddha and said "look i have cleaned the mirror of my mind, scrubbed it so all the dust is off. i have a clear mirror and am a good buddha"

and buddha says "there is no mirror so where can dust settle?"

This was either an amazed compliment about the cleanness of the mirror, or the buddha was a little confused about how mirrors work, but felt secure in his conclusion because his newly arrived twin brother was there to back him up.

 

[BigMoaner]

This was either an amazed compliment about the cleanness of the mirror, or the buddha was a little confused about how mirrors work, but felt secure in his conclusion because his newly arrived twin brother was there to back him up.

Source?

 

[danny la rouge]

Source?

Duck Soup.