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Secular Buddhism

.. the self becomes a mere construction, a passing joke, but it's also part of it too. everything is.
I love this. It is totally absurd but also undeniable. Certainly takes the pressure off. Still I do think it's important that we try to love 'each other' , even if there's no seperate self and we are all one big collection of vibrating molecules....
 
I love this. It is totally absurd but also undeniable. Certainly takes the pressure off. Still I do think it's important that we try to love 'each other' , even if there's no seperate self and we are all one big collection of vibrating molecules....
i like Nishida's path of negation Zen. the christian mystics used to do it with God too. I.e in meditation or wherever (doesn't matter) you negate yourself so you have a thought, "that's not me", you look at your arm "that's not me", you look at your emotion, "that's not me" but he goes as all good Zen's do when they arrive at Being or Daesen or Existence and also "that's not me". so you're real state is absolute nothingness. the candle is blown out (i.e. another analogy for nirvana). and out of this nothingness comes everything...and you're it. so then nirvarna and samsara...are the same. atheistic thought is not as far removed from this as implied.
 
I love this. It is totally absurd but also undeniable. Certainly takes the pressure off. Still I do think it's important that we try to love 'each other' , even if there's no seperate self and we are all one big collection of vibrating molecules....
or love as the universe falling in love with itself. the universe has eyes, mouth, noses, etc. when you look at a mountain or something, that's the universe looking at itself. the great "what ever the fuck it is" exploring itself.
 
and anyone who knows what it is and says they do, run a mile. what ever it is is not defined by the infinite or by the finite (close your eyes and after a while try and work out how big you are, what you measure), the relative or the absolute, the ordinary of the transcendent. no one has ever got a grip on it and many folk in the traditions say they haven't but secretly believe they have.
 
sanghas, hours and hours of meditation, being mindfull ALL day, sutras, scriptures, all have their place but the fundamentals will not be altered one bit by them all in my view after 12 years of this shit. i meditate ten minutes a day and try to think about buddhism as little as possible. real freedom is when the searching ends.
 
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sanghas, hours and hours of meditation, being mindfull ALL day, sutras, scriptures, all have their place but the fundamentals will not be altered one bit by them all in my view after 12 years of this shit. i meditate ten minutes a day and try to think about buddhism as little as possible. real freedom is when the searching ends.

This.
 
I've not seen this guy say he's a buddhist but he seems to have what appears to me as a pretty buddhist philosophy. I've really enjoyed watching his videos lately:



I was once told that thinking about others is part of Buddhism. That constantly thinking of yourself all the time is unhealthy and will make you unhappy and to think of others and see what you can do to help others. And I think that's true.
 
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Thinking about yourself all the time is definitely unhealthy! I think one of the appealing parts of mindfulness practice, which I think you can also equate with secular Buddhism, is that you are observing without judging, and then a common practice is to focus on spreading love/loving kindness to yourself and then everyone around you, in the whole world.
 
I've not seen this guy say he's a buddhist but he seems to have what appears to me as a pretty buddhist philosophy. I've really enjoyed watching his videos lately:



I was once told that thinking about others is part of Buddhism. That constantly thinking of yourself all the time is unhealthy and will make you unhappy and to think of others and see what you can do to help others. And I think that's true.


Just watched this. What a lovely bloke, and I really like what he's saying. Spot on. Thanks for sharing!
 
I’m on day 3 of the Oak app mantra mediation course. (It was free when I clicked).

I may repeat day 3. I felt good this morning, but Covid pessimism is getting a hold of me again.
 
I’m on day 3 of the Oak app mantra mediation course. (It was free when I clicked).

I may repeat day 3. I felt good this morning, but Covid pessimism is getting a hold of me again.
Yes, I imagine that the pessimism you describe can be too hard to escape from at times. Do you think it might be possible to distract yourself away from it? Will that help in any way?
 
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i know he's not popular in many buddhist circles but this video authentically, genuinely, irreversibly changed my life. literally woke up the next day a different person. I had been playing for a while with the concept of no-self and meditation and this bought everything home. it was literally direct pointing and transmission! I still go back to it now and then. it literally changed the whole structure of my being. only 10 mins or so



I'm... not too sure what he's going on about.
 
I'm... not too sure what he's going on about.
hard to explain unless you have experienced what he's saying.

I would say it's like a Sermon on The Mount of Zen Buddhism. The method of "no method". No path, no teacher, no method. If you see the Buddha, kill him. Give up, surrender! Sounds scary, but then that's what Zen 'just sitting ' meditation teachers you - that there's no one really there holding on anyway :D

This is where I think he is similar to Kant - who, as far as I can make out, believed that there are two types of knowledge - the relative (the world of appearances) and the absolute. And, due to the limits of our own senses, have access only really to the relative, whilst the absolute is always beyond conceptual understand...always. So what Watts is saying is that you are that absolute, you always were and you will always will be (another great Zen saying ' there no births, no deaths') and it's that 'what ever it is' which your true nature - but you don't have to 'find' your true nature, it's this right now as your reading this. and that the relative is the absolute. It's beyond time (how can there be a first cause?) and it's beyond spatial dimensions (how can there be such thing as spatial dimensions in infinity?).

Or another way Buddhist's put it - 'ten thousands things, one suchness, and we are all one suchness'. No subject and objects. Just an object that has no borders. We are all a center of a circle that just keeps expanding into nothingness (nothingness meaning the unnameable, the void)..Or, form is emptiness, emptiness is form'. So we are all basically empty and out of that emptiness comes everything. And you're it.

Experiential that does tend to, in a roundabout, way lead to the 'end of the suffering'. how can anythign suffer if there's nothing there? DAvid Hume was the first western philosopher to try and find the self - he couldn't find it. empty of inherent-somethingness.

this in my view is the problem wtih mindfulness, it requires effort. to pause, to reflect. 'just a thought' people say, viewing said thought, which is true, but what is 'viewing' that thought? isn't the viewer of the thought just another thought/sensation? it's not a self, is it? so the observer is just another damn thought. empty phenomena rolling on and on entirely by itself. or as the zen masters say when you say 'i am suffering' they just say back 'show me what it is that is suffering'? ungraspable because it's not there. all opposition to suffering can then cease. if there's pain and suffering, then there's pain and suffering. it can melt away with no opposition. but no suffering is boring as fuck and it can lead to other feelings of separation, so then the Boddhisatva plays the game, he comes back from Nirvarnia and plays the game of life (but always aware that he's been on certain journeys!') and that most of all he's seen through the game. the whole conceptual frame work of it (get a job, be sane, be this, be that, get this get that - it's as empty as a game - but it can be fun to play for sure especially if you see it's just a game).
 
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another explaining Zen. i had forgotten what a great populizer he was. that voice. he knew the score about awakening. drank himself to death though :( why can't we have public intellectuals like this any more. pure charisma. and as anti guru/teacher as they come.

 
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he's seen through the game. the whole conceptual frame work of it (get a job, be sane, be this, be that, get this get that - it's as empty as a game - but it can be fun to play for sure especially if you see it's just a game).

What I find hard to understand about this, is, if it's just a game, why play it? If we don't really exist, does anything matter?

And yet there are all these things in life to experience, love, joy, grief, sadness, peace..people to love, people to help, things to create. If it's all an illusion, what's the point of engaging with any of it, since it doesn't really exist anyway? ;)
 
What I find hard to understand about this, is, if it's just a game, why play it? If we don't really exist, does anything matter?

And yet there are all these things in life to experience, love, joy, grief, sadness, peace..people to love, people to help, things to create. If it's all an illusion, what's the point of engaging with any of it, since it doesn't really exist anyway? ;)
good question!

well, you can't help but play it. there's nothing else to do! you can become what is called, i think, a Patayka Buddha who sits on a mountain all day in non-conceptional bliss but he's missing hte point in my view and i think most Buddhist view.

and who says it's not real? if it seems real then go with that. there's the idealist/hindu idea that it really is just a dream created by a brain, but i have never worked out where they go with that. i do think the senses and the brain are limited, it's common sense. but i don't the external world is just a projection of mind (although things do not 'fall into the eye' - the light travels into the eye and the brain's chemistry makes the images within the brain - so it's truly difficult to tell whether what is out there actually is real at all!)

this is a very hard question to answer from my own direct experience.

i look at it from a place of attachment - i love getting attached to things (playing the game), falling in love, sex, football, politics, friendships but 'seeing through the game' means my attachment only goes so far, infact because it only goes so far i am freer and have more space for the attachment to be exciting, fullfilling, interesting. i don't think for example 'if this person hates me i might as well kill myself'. the existential despair has vanished because of buddhism. but boy am i still a mass of seething emotion. who the hell wouldn't want be!

shakespeare is great on this:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

key stress on:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

buddhism and a great deal of eastern thinking just points at the 'what ever it is' that casts the shadow - the shadow being our lives (the game). but you cannot cast no shadow, no? you have to play the game. you cannot help but cast a shadow. but when you see it's justs a shadow, the game becomes less terrifying, the suffering doesn't last so long, and you have direct experiential access to the weird 'what ever it is' that casts the shadow.

this is all ancient eastern shit that is at the core of buddhism, daoism, parts of hinduism, etc. zen is one of the most direct paths in my view.

this guy who hardly gets hardly any viewsand is funny AF and has meditated for years and what he's talking about here nails it and to me explains it. he is talking about 'non dualilty' which is the essence of buddhism and advaita vedanta.

 
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another explaining Zen. i had forgotten what a great populizer he was. that voice. he knew the score about awakening. drank himself to death though :( why can't we have public intellectuals like this any more. pure charisma. and as anti guru/teacher as they come.



He was certainly an interesting character!
I like what he says though.
I went to a talk about him at the British Library a few years ago.
 
He was certainly an interesting character!
I like what he says though.
I went to a talk about him at the British Library a few years ago.
i think people like him sort of died at the start of 2000. wild minds. drink, drugs, and deep, deep non internet affected knowledge. a vastness and then the character to express it. who do we have today like that? everyone so polished and predictable.
 
What I find hard to understand about this, is, if it's just a game, why play it? If we don't really exist, does anything matter?

And yet there are all these things in life to experience, love, joy, grief, sadness, peace..people to love, people to help, things to create. If it's all an illusion, what's the point of engaging with any of it, since it doesn't really exist anyway? ;)
or another way of putting it is it's-not-a-game-that-is-a-game. :)
 
han again this helped me immensley when i was asking your question. this is not just watts prattling - it's sumerising how the east has dealt with your question.

 
good question!

well, you can't help but play it. there's nothing else to do! you can become what is called, i think, a Patayka Buddha who sits on a mountain all day in non-conceptional bliss but he's missing hte point in my view and i think most Buddhist view.

and who says it's not real? if it seems real then go with that. there's the idealist/hindu idea that it really is just a dream created by a brain, but i have never worked out where they go with that. i do think the senses and the brain are limited, it's common sense. but i don't the external world is just a projection of mind (although things do not 'fall into the eye' - the light travels into the eye and the brain's chemistry makes the images within the brain - so it's truly difficult to tell whether what is out there actually is real at all!)

this is a very hard question to answer from my own direct experience.

i look at it from a place of attachment - i love getting attached to things (playing the game), falling in love, sex, football, politics, friendships but 'seeing through the game' means my attachment only goes so far, infact because it only goes so far i am freer and have more space for the attachment to be exciting, fullfilling, interesting. i don't think for example 'if this person hates me i might as well kill myself'. the existential despair has vanished because of buddhism. but boy am i still a mass of seething emotion. who the hell wouldn't want be!

shakespeare is great on this:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

key stress on:
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

buddhism and a great deal of eastern thinking just points at the 'what ever it is' that casts the shadow - the shadow being our lives (the game). but you cannot cast no shadow, no? you have to play the game. you cannot help but cast a shadow. but when you see it's justs a shadow, the game becomes less terrifying, the suffering doesn't last so long, and you have direct experiential access to the weird 'what ever it is' that casts the shadow.

this is all ancient eastern shit that is at the core of buddhism, daoism, parts of hinduism, etc. zen is one of the most direct paths in my view.

this guy who hardly gets hardly any viewsand is funny AF and has meditated for years and what he's talking about here nails it and to me explains it. he is talking about 'non dualilty' which is the essence of buddhism and advaita vedanta.



Trapped in oneness. :thumbs: That's reassuring :D
 
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