Secular Buddhism
- Thread starter danny la rouge
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That's reassuring 
han
love is the answer
Wow! That's amazing. Fuck, my mind is a bit blown....
han
love is the answer
I was thinking the other day, that one of problems we have as humans, is that because we use words to describe situations, we're automatically 'judging' them, as either positive or negative, and that can cause issues, as it's basically our own perception of what is, not how things really are.
I try to avoid judging people or situations as much as I can, in this way, and just observe. But taking language out completely would make life rather impractical wouldn't it! How would you get anything done?!
Just a random thought..
I try to avoid judging people or situations as much as I can, in this way, and just observe. But taking language out completely would make life rather impractical wouldn't it! How would you get anything done?!
Just a random thought..
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Yeh impossible. Its also like sight, hearing, touch, are without language but it's the mind that knows what it is that it is seeing or hearing touching. But the act of seeing or hearing touching is just a function. When sight is seeing a mountain it doesn't know its a mountain. But the mind knows.I was thinking the other day, that one of problems we have as humans, is that because we use words to describe situations, we're automatically 'judging' them, as either positive or negative, and that can cause issues, as it's basically our own perception of what is, not how things really are.
I try to avoid judging people or situations as much as I can, in this way, and just observe. But taking language out completely would make life rather impractical wouldn't it! How would you get anything done?!
Just a random thought..
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Nishitani the Japanese philosopher said there's a splitting. So we are walking through the woods and a mountain or flowers or whatever come into site. We are seeing them but the thought "oh look at them flowers, I'm glad I found them" is the splitting between subject and object ("I. E him and the flowers"). He calls the awareness before the splitting the absolute. Or being. Or buddha field. The 'what ever it is' before we snap into "me" and "that". Before that splitting (and of course after it) is the universe without subject and without objects.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
I try to follow the judgement. So if I'm judgemental that's just what is happening. If I don't oppose it it tends to fizzle out and new space opens up and I get perspective. As soon as I say I shouldn't be feeling this way, I create a sort of infinite regress. Like trying to push water up a hill. If I am feeling judgemental I just accept it and most times with that new thinking opens up and it goes away. Also, Being critical of people, ideas, etc is also immensely important sometimes. That's just me there's no right or wrong.I was thinking the other day, that one of problems we have as humans, is that because we use words to describe situations, we're automatically 'judging' them, as either positive or negative, and that can cause issues, as it's basically our own perception of what is, not how things really are.
I try to avoid judging people or situations as much as I can, in this way, and just observe. But taking language out completely would make life rather impractical wouldn't it! How would you get anything done?!
Just a random thought..
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Also finally figuring out that there is no "I separate from the judgement. That in a very real sense (and this is where meditation can be so educational) that there is no one there choosing to be judgmental, then it can come and go as it pleases. Acting out on it though is a different kettle or fish and can end up with a shit load of bad karma (tho I don't really like that word or believe it as a concept).
han
love is the answer
Yes, this makes total sense. I agree, and I feel that. The being with the flower, before any thought or awareness of seperate self arises.
han
love is the answer
Action creates results. If we don't act, nothing happens. We may judge but if we don't verbalise it or act on it, it has no consequences, except perhaps inside our own heads!
han
love is the answer
No! Feel free to continue if you wish ! It is most enlightening!
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I’m finding this all a bit mystical for me. I know a lot of secular Buddhists concentrate on early Buddhism and what they consider the earliest parts of the Pali Canon. Their contention is that Non Self is a later interpolation.
Other secular Buddhists, of course, are interested in Zen, which does accept Non Self, but the Zen approach of “just sit” appeals to them.
For me, this is a way of seeing the psychological field of the “I versus me”. The subject versus object. And the implications of language on self (something Ivana Markova wrote about, although quite hard concepts to get ones head around).
Other secular Buddhists, of course, are interested in Zen, which does accept Non Self, but the Zen approach of “just sit” appeals to them.
For me, this is a way of seeing the psychological field of the “I versus me”. The subject versus object. And the implications of language on self (something Ivana Markova wrote about, although quite hard concepts to get ones head around).
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
ha! good luck on the path han. i've been around this stuff for years and gone down so many blind alleys/dead ends. i think the best thing to do is have fun with it. it's just stuff to explore and have fun with. meditation without all the metaphysical stuff is just good full stop and a life changing tool from what i can tell. i experienced physiological changes too after a while, my heart rate got calmer, my skin got clearer, i lost less hair, the feeling of dread in my stomach went. and that was without going deep into the philosophy of buddhism and the rest. but it's a rich tradition, an amazing place for discoveries. but i try to remember that i am first and foremost a westerner, with all my western conditioning. i don't believe in some sort of elevated state, nor do most buddhists who know what they are talking about. but buddhism and the other nondual traditions certainly will provide insights. be a light to yourself. the moment cannot be escaped or improved on so i am not sure how enlightenment can exist. we are all living out hte mysteries of the universe!!!!No! Feel free to continue if you wish ! It is most enlightening!
han
love is the answer
It's all about the NOW. And lightening up. And joy in the moment.
Personally I'm not into religion of any kind. I'd say I'm a humanist, or an atheist, with Quaker tendencies.
You're right, there's no denying that meditation and mindfulness have a positive effect on every area of our life (particularly on those around us) , and physically too.
But twisting your mind trying to understand the nature of reality is ultimately futile. Surrender, accept, and be joyous, that's what I say!
Personally I'm not into religion of any kind. I'd say I'm a humanist, or an atheist, with Quaker tendencies.
You're right, there's no denying that meditation and mindfulness have a positive effect on every area of our life (particularly on those around us) , and physically too.
But twisting your mind trying to understand the nature of reality is ultimately futile. Surrender, accept, and be joyous, that's what I say!
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
which is a zen saying not the weird sex cult by the same name
how long did it take for you to notice the physiological changes?
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
about a year tbh. and that was just sitting watching thoughts. i used to do 20 minutes on the bus. first five mins watching breath, then the last 15 "just watching/listening/feeling in sitting as in zen style.
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han
love is the answer
Omg. OK, nothing to do with the UK festival, then. Phew. My brother goes to that!
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
also didn't stop the collapse of my marriage, with my wife cheating on me. but it's helped with the trauma of that 10 fold.
han
love is the answer
Glad to hear it's helped. I think our resistance to what is is the primary cause of our pain, rather than the events themselves.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Yeh it was 8 or so months of mental torture tbh, long after the finding out and the event itself. Everything turned upside down in a few brief moments. But got back on my feet and its a distant memory now. Lockdown hasn't bloody helped tho! My kids are good, I'm coping, can't really ask for more. Got a job and roof over my head. That's far luckier than a massive proportion of the globe.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
That’s the two arrows of dukkha, isn’t it. The suffering (or rather range of negative feelings from mild dissatisfaction through to misery) of the injury itself, and the suffering brought about by obsessing about the suffering. We might not be able to avoid the injury, injustice or illness. But we can cope better with the inevitability of them if we learn not to obsess on that second arrow.
han
love is the answer
Absolutely. The obsessing about the suffering is actually far worse and harder to bear than the event triggering it.
Someone said, I can't remember who, 'pain is an emotional response to a physical sensation'. The physical sensation itself is neutral. It just IS. Until we interpret it.
Someone said, I can't remember who, 'pain is an emotional response to a physical sensation'. The physical sensation itself is neutral. It just IS. Until we interpret it.
