Scoffing too much meat and eggs is ‘just as bad as smoking’, claim scientists

[ddraig]

and yes i am 'different' have 'different ideas' and am in a minority so will always be on the 'losing' side

so again, this is pointless and only providing enjoyment for the purile majority mob
i was raised a vegi so do take it personally when people say you 'need' meat and round on vegetarians and their choices.
best for all if i try my best to stay out of this thread

 

[Spymaster]

You're showing editor-sized logic fail on this thread.

You clearly have different ideas, but for me there are two separate aspects to farm animal welfare: how it is kept through its life and how it is killed. The calves in example 1 from my post pass that first test. And yes, I do think that is important.

It's also reasonable to assume that if the farmer cares for their welfare in life, as in example 1, he'll do the same when it comes to their slaughter.

 

[ddraig]

That's right. That's the bit I have no problem with.

so why give a shit whether it spent its days in a shed or a field?

 

[ddraig]

It's also reasonable to assume that if the farmer cares for their welfare in life, as in example 1, he'll do the same when it comes to their slaughter.

ai. a little stroke of their head before you lop it off makes all the difference!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

so why give a shit whether it spent its days in a shed or a field?

Ah ok, we're reduced to teenage nihilism. We all die, so why give a shit about anything that's alive? It will be dead eventually.

 

[Spymaster]

so why give a shit whether it spent its days in a shed or a field?

Because he wants the animal to be as happy and comfortable as possible during its life.

Why don't you get that?

 

[Spymaster]

ai. a little stroke of their head before you lop it off makes all the difference!

Don't be silly.

There are slaughter practices that meat eaters find acceptable and others that we don't. The point was, of course, that animals treated well in life are more likely to be humanely killed than those that aren't.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

ai. a little stroke of their head before you lop it off makes all the difference!

There are lots of things that can be done during slaughter to alleviate suffering. I can recommend you read about Temple Grandin's work designing slaughterhouses for cows - by trying to look at the process from a cow's pov, she made a few relatively small adjustments that made a huge difference to the animals' experience immediately pre-death. If you can move them into position to be killed without causing distress, then deliver a bolt to the head that ends consciousness more or less instantly, then you've done the thing right.

 

[ddraig]

you can stick your recommendations up your blocked passage!

There are lots of things that can be done during slaughter to alleviate suffering. I can recommend you read about Temple Grandin's work designing slaughterhouses for cows - by trying to look at the process from a cow's pov, she made a few relatively small adjustments that made a huge difference to the animals' experience immediately pre-death. If you can move them into position to be killed without causing distress, then deliver a bolt to the head that ends consciousness more or less instantly, then you've done the thing right.

from a cow's point of view! listen to yourself ffs
"and if we paint a daisy on the bit of panelling just before they get a bolt through the head they'll be thinking of daisies and not death, might even taste a tiny bit nicer, mmmm" jesus wept

bit in bold, "done the right thing" killing it for food is not the right thing when there are other altrnatives, full stop
aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrghh

 

[Spymaster]

.... killing it for food is not the right thing when there are other altrnatives, full stop aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrghh

This is the problem.

We do not accept that killing animals for food is wrong or unethical despite there being alternative food sources. It may be (how the animal is treated in life and despatched), but it's not necessarily.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

you can stick your recommendations up your blocked passage!

from a cow's point of view! listen to yourself ffs
"and if we paint a daisy on the bit of panelling just before they get a bolt through the head they'll be thinking of daisies and not death, might even taste a tiny bit nicer, mmmm" jesus wept

You're being very silly now. Such things as being able to see the cow in front of you and not having to walk down steep steel tracks keeps the animals calm. Cows are highly social animals and have 'mates' within the herd. If you don't recognise this kind of thing, you can easily cause great distress unnecessarily.

So yes, read Temple Grandin. I can recommend Thinking in pictures as a starting point.

You appear to have something of a mental block on this - you can't recognise that people who eat meat might also care about animal welfare, and that such concern is not simply hypocritical.

 

[ddraig]

This is the problem.

We do not accept that killing animals for food is wrong or unethical despite there being alternative food sources. It may be (how the animal is treated in life and despatched), but it's not necessarily.

"we"

 

[ddraig]

You're being very silly now. Such things as being able to see the cow in front of you and not having to walk down steep steel tracks keeps the animals calm. Cows are highly social animals and have 'mates' within the herd. If you don't recognise this kind of thing, you can easily cause great distress unnecessarily.

So yes, read Temple Grandin. I can recommend Thinking in pictures as a starting point.

You appear to have something of a mental block on this - you can't recognise that people who eat meat might also care about animal welfare, and that such concern is not simply hypocritical.

please fuck off telling me about animal welfare, what to read on the subject and it being all ok because the slaughter is made a tiny bit more palatable for you

 

[Dr_Herbz]

What's your objection to lamb? They're about as free range as you get. And how delicious!

It's that they're killed at just a few months old, because they're more delicious at that age.
I believe that if we insist on eating animals, which we do and always will, because pig tastes amazing, then the animal should at least be allowed to live out a half decent life before we put it on our plate.

 

[Spymaster]

"we"

LBJ (I'm sure he'll forgive me for that, given his posts on this thread) and I.

 

[Spymaster]

please fuck off telling me about animal welfare, what to read on the subject and it being all ok because the slaughter is made a tiny bit more palatable for you

In return will you fuck off with your ill thought out, playground standard, moralising?

 

[Orang Utan]

It's that they're killed at just a few months old, because they're more delicious at that age.
I believe that if we insist on eating animals, which we do and always will, because pig tastes amazing, then the animal should at least be allowed to live out a half decent life before we put it on our plate.

Try mutton or hogget then, but I think I think your reasoning is specious

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Try mutton or hogget then, but I think I think your reasoning is specious

I agree... mutton isn't nice, which is why I don't eat it... but pig is really nice, as is a nice steak, and they both come from an animal that wasn't killed within a few months of birth.

I'm not saying there's any right age to kill any animal, and this is in no way a holier than thou thing. I'm simply trying to justify, to some extent, my love of bacon sandwiches and medium rare steaks.

 

[NoXion]

please fuck off telling me about animal welfare, what to read on the subject and it being all ok because the slaughter is made a tiny bit more palatable for you

The welfare of food animals does actually matter. Stressed animals raised in poor conditions produce crappy meat.

 

[8ball]

I agree... mutton isn't nice...

Mmmm... Jamaican mutton curry...

 

[fishfinger]

I agree... mutton isn't nice, which is why I don't eat it... but pig is really nice, as is a nice steak, and they both come from an animal that wasn't killed within a few months of birth.

I'm not saying there's any right age to kill any animal, and this is in no way a holier than thou thing. I'm simply trying to justify, to some extent, my love of bacon sandwiches and medium rare steaks.

Most pigs are about 6 months old when slaughtered. Lambs are between 8-12 months old. Chickens are about 42 days old.

 

[Greebo]

That's why she called it an analogy.

It is indeed.

Pray forgive me, ddraig, for having more urgent things to do elsewhere than dancing attendance upon your every utterance. In fact, I have more urgent things to do on even my most idle of days (that doesn't BTW include today) than to put up with your (in my arrogant opinion) near hysterical drivel.

 

[ddraig]

It is indeed.

Pray forgive me, for having more urgent things to do elsewhere than dancing attendance upon your every utterance. In fact, I have more urgent things to do on even my most idle of days (that doesn't BTW include today) than to put up with your (in my arrogant opinion) near hysterical drivel.

i honestly don't understand why you are being this way
i didn't expect an answer from you within a limited time and am aware that you have loads of things to do. sorry for questioning your post.
sorry you seem to have had a bad day.

 

[Greebo]

ddraig Sweetie, I'm neither asking for nor expecting your sympathy - and I'll thank you to be less patronising (what are you, socially illiterate?).

There are days when posts like yours on this thread happen to rub me up the wrong way, mainly because you've gone out of your way to give offence as well as to find it.

 

[ddraig]

i give up! nice insults Greebo

 

[littlebabyjesus]

please fuck off telling me about animal welfare, what to read on the subject and it being all ok because the slaughter is made a tiny bit more palatable for you

It was an attempt to get you to understand my pov on this, which is indeed the same as Spy's.

Reading about the slaughter of cattle and the ways it can be improved, these changes don't just make it a tiny bit more palatable for me - they make an enormous difference, between an animal having a calm and relatively stress-free final day and it having a terrifying one. Cattle are quite stupid animals, but sensitive and emotional ones that are easily upset. Avoiding upsetting them and stressing them out is far more than just a marginal concern for me.

The bit you clearly don't get is that I am fine with the idea of raising and killing animals to eat. You appear unable to see beyond that point and you are led to a strange place where you simply won't accept that a meat-eater can have genuine concern for animal welfare.

 

[Frances Lengel]

<snip>oh and this purile piece will amuse some of the meat defenders here
"look, boobs and bacon!" what's not to like (unless you are a vegi/gay/woman etc)
http://geekologie.com/2009/01/highly-questionable-the-bacon.php

Christ alone knows why the near-hysterical Puff The Magic Dragon has chosen to post a link to a site featuring a bra made out of bacon.

 

[8ball]

Christ alone knows why the near-hysterical Puff The Magic Dragon has chosen to post a link to a site featuring a bra made out of bacon.

Vegetarian diets may be fine for dogs and humans, but the lack of arachidonic acid sends dragons a bit odd.

 

[mentalchik]

and yes i am 'different' have 'different ideas' and am in a minority so will always be on the 'losing' side

so again, this is pointless and only providing enjoyment for the purile majority mob
i was raised a vegi so do take it personally when people say you 'need' meat and round on vegetarians and their choices.
best for all if i try my best to stay out of this thread

and where on this thread has anyone done this ?

 

[sleaterkinney]

Reading about the slaughter of cattle and the ways it can be improved, these changes don't just make it a tiny bit more palatable for me - they make an enormous difference, between an animal having a calm and relatively stress-free final day and it having a terrifying one. Cattle are quite stupid animals, but sensitive and emotional ones that are easily upset. Avoiding upsetting them and stressing them out is far more than just a marginal concern for me.

tbh, if you put animals in a confined space, around humans who are driving them from pen to pen then they may get distressed anyway. The killing being quick and efficient is the only thing I would be worried about and from what I've seen it is.