Savile being used as a wedge issue to attack BBC independence

[Wilf]

this would be the same bbc that suppressed the newsnight report to defend the image of Jimmy Saville, knew the extent of the allegations yet continued to show tribute programmes, and a special jim'll fix it. and then when forced to acknowledge the truth when confronted by an ITV documentary attempted to defer any investigation into the affair for as long as possible.
or acompletly different one?

That about sums it up.

 

[discokermit]

.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you mean he's fully satisfied with his current post, has important work to do and supports the present leadership (but is installing phone lines as we speak)?

Yes, exactly that!!!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Does anyone seriously think this could end the BBC? The Catholic Church still lives and breathes.

Not quite a fair comparison, the church has over a billion followers and 2000 years of history. The BBC is just over a century old and has tens of millions of users held captive without their consent if they want to watch TV.

 

[Citizen66]

Not quite a fair comparison, the church has over a billion followers and 2000 years of history. The BBC is just over a century old and has tens of millions of users held captive without their consent if they want to watch TV.

How many of the billions of followers of the catholic church renounced their belief following their child abuse scandal I wonder.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

How many of the billions of followers of the catholic church renounced their belief following their child abuse scandal I wonder.

The point is the church is too big to fail, the bbc isn't. It can easily be privatized and within a matter of years. Look how quickly the NHS, a national institution, has basically been set full speed toward privatisation. The BBC is easier to dismantle because people don't value it in the same way as medical services or even religion...

 

[articul8]

More either/or logic. Why not imagine a BBC not run by an elite for an elite and padding it out with nonsense about public service? Why not BBC under democratic community control? Or maybe it really, is as your either/or logic dictates, - fox news or the current BBC.

(Cue next post, hey i really like those proposed things too! Bit odd that other people arguing it are put in the either/or box though eh? Whereas you are just simply free)

where have I said that a defence of public broadcasting means a defence of the BBC status quo? - of course I'd rather see media under democratic community control. But at the same time, the (Tory right-led) onslaught against the BBC as a public institution isn't going to make that any closer, quite the reverse.

 

[dylans]

How many of the billions of followers of the catholic church renounced their belief following their child abuse scandal I wonder.

3% in the US. 2 million people. Which means, of course, that 97% of US members are quite content to remain in a church whose clergy rapes children and whose senior clergy covers it up.

I don't know about globally

A new study by Daniel M. Hungerman, an economist at the University of Notre Dame, estimates that the Catholic Church in the United States lost about two million members — or 3 percent of its American membership — because of the sexual abuse scandals, and that donations to other religious groups rose by $3 billion in the five years after the first significant news reports of the abuses

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deacon...f-catholics-left-over-the-sex-abuse-scandals/

 

[butchersapron]

where have I said that a defence of public broadcasting means a defence of the BBC status quo? - of course I'd rather see media under democratic community control. But at the same time, the (Tory right-led) onslaught against the BBC as a public institution isn't going to make that any closer, quite the reverse.

So you're not then saying?

So the anarcho-left is happy to let News Corp undermine the basis of public sector broadcasting? And this is a good idea because...?

In that case i think i'd like to know why you said it?

Or is your case that these other nuanced options are only open to people like you - everyone else must be operating on the binary logic that you have forced down their throats here.

 

[barney_pig]

i enjoyed the great british bake off as much as anyone, but lets stop and smell the coffee, this is the state's own broadcaster, with an agenda, which holds, not a brief for individual administrations, but instead expresses the viewpoint(s) of the British establishment. this is no island of socialism nor independent exercise in journalistic objectivism. It is rather a vehicle for the regressive taxation of the poor to fund the careers of the privileged.

 

[Pickman's model]

i enjoyed the great british bake off as much as anyone, but lets stop and smell the coffee, this is the state's own broadcaster, with an agenda, which holds, not a brief for individual administrations, but instead expresses the viewpoint(s) of the British establishment. this is no island of socialism nor independent exercise in journalistic objectivism. It is rather a vehicle for the regressive taxation of the poor to fund the careers of the privileged.

And, in a number of cases, the perverted

 

[articul8]

I said

So the anarcho-left is happy to let News Corp undermine the basis of public sector broadcasting? And this is a good idea because...?

Because you seem not to recognise any qualitative difference between the BBC and Fox. If you join in the general attack on the beeb ( and of course I accept there have been a whole litany of major failings with respect to Savile - and the cuts) without defending public sector broadcasting from a point of principle, you are helping the neoliberal ultras.

 

[butchersapron]

I said

Because you seem not to recognise any qualitative difference between the BBC and Fox. If you join in the general attack on the beeb ( and of course I accept there have been a whole litany of major failings with respect to Savile - and the cuts) without defending public sector broadcasting from a point of principle, you are helping the neoliberal ultras.

So it is exactly what i said - i point out the need for the sort of things you suggest before you do and it's

So the anarcho-left is happy to let News Corp undermine the basis of public sector broadcasting? And this is a good idea because...?

You say exactly the same stuff after me and it's suddenly a brilliantly nuanced position recognising the dynamics at play and everyone else still being stuck in either/or.

 

[TopCat]

I said

Because you seem not to recognise any qualitative difference between the BBC and Fox. If you join in the general attack on the beeb ( and of course I accept there have been a whole litany of major failings with respect to Savile - and the cuts) without defending public sector broadcasting from a point of principle, you are helping the neoliberal ultras.

Who is joining in the "general attack on the beeb"? You have adopted a strange position. It is acceptable to criticise the BBC if it's justified despite people wanting to undermine it welcoming that criticism and seeing it useful.

 

[articul8]

err no - you made a reasonable point *after* I'd pulled you up the congruence between your argument and the Tory right's.

 

[Wilf]

I said

Because you seem not to recognise any qualitative difference between the BBC and Fox. If you join in the general attack on the beeb ( and of course I accept there have been a whole litany of major failings with respect to Savile - and the cuts) without defending public sector broadcasting from a point of principle, you are helping the neoliberal ultras.

"It's truly appalling what happened to Savile's victims and how they were let down by layer after layer of BBC management - HANDS OFF THE BEEB YOU TORY CUNT! " That the kind of approach you favour?

 

[articul8]

Who is joining in the "general attack on the beeb"? You have adopted a strange position. It is acceptable to criticise the BBC if it's justified despite people wanting to undermine it welcoming that criticism and seeing it useful.

It is necessary to criticise the BBC on the specifics whilst defending the general principle of public sector broadcasting from its enemies.

 

[butchersapron]

err no - you made a reasonable point *after* I'd pulled you up the congruence between your argument and the Tory right's.

Er no, i made two points:
1) the BBC have been facilitating the public sale of the cuts - how hell is that anything to do with the tory right?
2) That the defences of the BBC are often based on daft unquestioned and unsupported assumptions about the BBC and about the public's capabilities - how the hell is that anything to do with the tory right?

And how does both or either of those points lead you to the ridiculous conclusion that:

the anarcho-left is happy to let News Corp undermine the basis of public sector broadcasting? And this is a good idea because...?

You simply fucked it up again in your haste to think that everyone else is an idiot who hasn't thought things through - unlike you of course.

 

[Pickman's model]

It is necessary to criticise the BBC on the specifics whilst defending the general principle of public sector broadcasting from its enemies.

you seem to think there's something magick about publick sector broadcasting. doesn't it depend somewhat on the publick sector broadcaster having something of a public service ethick? something many senior bbc managers appear utterly unaware of imo.

 

[Pickman's model]

"It's truly appalling what happened to Savile's victims and how they were let down by layer after layer of BBC management - HANDS OFF THE BEEB YOU TORY CUNT! " That the kind of approach you favour?

 

[articul8]

In a context where the neoliberal right are champing at the bit to take a pop at the BBC (bloated, tax-payer subsidised statist monolith..etc.etc.) then the comments of those who imply there's no essential difference from a rapacious mulitnational profiteer are helping a class enemy.

Which isn't to say that the fight against News Corp means taking an uncritical attitude to the BBC and its current structure.

 

[butchersapron]

So the labour-left is happy to let the BBC undermine the basis of public sector broadcasting? And this is a good idea because...?

 

[butchersapron]

In a context where the neoliberal right are champing at the bit to take a pop at the BBC (bloated, tax-payer subsidised statist monolith..etc.etc.) then the comments of those who imply there's no essential difference from a rapacious mulitnational profiteer are helping a class enemy.

Which isn't to say that the fight against News Corp means taking an uncritical attitude to the BBC and its current structure.

I'd like you to point to a single post from me even implying this, never mind actually arguing it.

 

[articul8]

not at all - the BBC needs to be criticised in the name of properly accountable and democratic public service broadcasting

 

[Pickman's model]

In a context where the neoliberal right are champing at the bit to take a pop at the BBC (bloated, tax-payer subsidised statist monolith..etc.etc.) then the comments of those who imply there's no essential difference from a rapacious mulitnational profiteer are helping a class enemy.

you're a member of the labour party, aren't you?

 

[butchersapron]

not at all - the BBC needs to be criticised in the name of properly accountable and democratic public service broadcasting

See, when you say it it sounds so reasonable - when i say it it becomes:

the anarcho-left is happy to let News Corp undermine the basis of public sector broadcasting? And this is a good idea because...?

 

[dylans]

BBC Panorama investigates BBC Newsnight over BBC scandal of BBC cover-up over BBC scandal

The BBC was left reeling tonight after it uncovered itself trying to cover-up a cover-up it failed to uncover of it trying to cover up allegations of a cover-up of the Jimmy Savile sex abuse scandal.
The BBC’s uncovering of its own cover-up was uncovered by the BBC’s Panorama after it uncovered a cover-up by the BBC’s Newsnight which it is alleged was attempting to uncover a cover-up which was eventually only uncovered by ITV.
A spokesperson for the BBC tried in vain to explain what the f**k was going on:

All I know is that I’ve been ordered to explain that there’s been no cover-up whatsoever at the BBC. Apart from the one the BBC has uncovered tonight on Panorama of course.​

In a related incident, the BBC has denied the BBC has accused it of attempting to hide from itself accusations that it may have been denying it had accused itself of not accusing itself of something it should have accused itself of.

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/...bbc-scandal-of-bbc-cover-up-over-bbc-scandal/

 

[Captain Hurrah]

 

[cesare]

I bet arty wrote the post Dylan's quoting from.

 

[elbows]

The BBC thinks so highly of itself that even when its reporting on its own terrible failings, it cant help but enjoy the experience of talking about itself.