Saudi gang rape victim sentenced to lashes and prison
- Thread starter david dissadent
- Start date
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sharia according to whom?fattboy said:
You see, this is where the problem resides, Sharia as practised in some states is not based on a quantified set of Sharia laws agreed upon by the worldwide [i[ulema[/i], but rather on individualistic interpretations of the injunctions placed upon Muslims in the Koran and the Hadith.
This has (unfortunately) meant that along with those injunctions, tribal and ethnic practices that have little place in a Sharia court get given consideration.
Islam utilised trial by ordeal (which is what the "hot irons" were all about) in the 8-10th century in Spain, and as I recall the 13-century long punishment for "witchcraft" (which is why mediaeval Europeans "dunked people") is...?
By the way, I know the answer to my question, I'm interested to see whether you'll admit what the answer is.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Actually the presumption of innocence only properly applies to those being judged if they are of the faithful.fattboy said:
ViolentPanda said:Sharia according to whom?
You see, this is where the problem resides, Sharia as practised in some states is not based on a quantified set of Sharia laws agreed upon by the worldwide [i[ulema[/i], but rather on individualistic interpretations of the injunctions placed upon Muslims in the Koran and the Hadith.
This has (unfortunately) meant that along with those injunctions, tribal and ethnic practices that have little place in a Sharia court get given consideration.
Islam utilised trial by ordeal (which is what the "hot irons" were all about) in the 8-10th century in Spain, and as I recall the 13-century long punishment for "witchcraft" (which is why mediaeval Europeans "dunked people") is...?
By the way, I know the answer to my question, I'm interested to see whether you'll admit what the answer is.
what u need 2 understand Violentpanda is Islam is the religion, brought by the Prophet peace be upon him
these things u describe have no part in Islam, wether muslims did them or not, and tbh ive never heard of muslims doing these things the christian west is known 2 have done, in spain at that time Islam was in its golden age and led the world in maths, science, medicine and every other field, but if they did, Islam is free of it, and those muslims were misguided and departed from the teachings of Islam in these respects, but again, ive never heard of these things been done by the muslims because in the sharia everything is referred back 2 the Quran and ahadith and these practices are definitely not from either.
What, like saying that a poster would get his head split open. That was the 'childish cheapshot' I was wanting to avoid. I see to still can't use the word 'to', is this too much for you? I see you are avoiding the question about how you know there was no proof of rape.fattboy said:
Nor are you my 'mate'.
Nobody is criticising Islam for the Arabic advances in the sciences, maths, arts, etc. At the time they were the leading civilisation in the western world. Unfortunately (in general) there has not been alot of progression since then.fattboy said:
Suicide bombing isn't exactly promoted in the Quran either, but it's still happens. Any religion can be perverted to allow individuals to trigger the most obscene acts. It just seems that, at the moment, that Islamic Fundamentalism allows for more obscene acts than most. The case of this girl is one of those acts.
MikeMcc said:
right Mike, those were great days 4 Islam and the muslims, and those ppl that lived in the muslim lands that didnt embrace the religion but lived under the safety and security of Islamic rule like the coptic and chaldean christians who were persecuted by the roman christians and the jews who were persecuted by christians in general but that all ended when the muslims came and provided security and safety 4 them all and gave them their rights, all this in the space of a couple of hundred years, the arabs had gone from being shepherds 2 the greatest civilisation the world has ever known, spanning from spain 2 china.
those early generations of muslims understood the religion and practiced it as it should be practiced, but there came a time when the muslims started getting caught up in too much of the material things and devoting less and less 2 the religion and this carries on 2 2day, while in the west the christians were far behind the muslims in all fields and only started 2 catch up at the time of the industrial revoloution, when they relegated the authority of the church and started taking things in a purely scientific and secular appproach, not that science and religion are 2 seperate things but, and im not trying 2 offend ppl but the christian bible has been changed so much since its books were revealed and translated and retranslated and interpolated that its real meanings have been lost, but this isnt the case with the Qur'an , it has remained unchanged, not one word has been added or taken away since it was revealed by Allah, almighty God.
so the west started 2 advance when their put their religion on the backburner and while this was happening the muslims were getting further from their religion and there came the point where the west overtook the muslims, and when this happened the muslims started looking 2 the west 4 its answers and soloutions 2 their problems taking muslims even further from Islam.
theres nothing wrong tho with being a fundamentalist, this just means u hold 2 the ideals of something, same way u probably hold 2 the ideals of ur beliefs and understandings.
this has been invented by the media so anyone who practices Isla correctly, the pure unchanged Islam, not the white house version, or the downing st. version but the religion as those early generations understood and practiced it.
those early muslims had jews and christians in their lands under their authority, and never did any holocaust happen, or inquisitions or pogroms or any persecution like what was happening elsewhere, because they adhered 2 the commands of Allah,and treated their subjects with justice.
about suicide bombing, in Islam suicide is completely forbidden, as is targetting women, children in war, i can bring u the sharia evidence 4 this too.
what happened in london and 911, if there was muslim involvement at some level, i dont rule it out, i and the majority of muslims believe it was completely wrong. never did the Prophet peace be upon him target women or children or any non combatants, and we go by his example, not anyone elses.
were not pacifists, peace aint lying down in the road and letting ppl walk on ur face, but in Islam violence is the last resort not the first, and bombing women and children has no place in it.
and about the girl, i misrepresented what happened in an earlier post, she was sentenced because she admitted having an affair on her husband, not 4 being alone with someone she shouldnt have been,
u might think it a bit strong with ur western ideas and cultural conditioning, but so is coming home from work 2 find ur wife with another man.
Islam came 2 protect and benefit ppl and society, what she did was wrong, why didnt she just marry the man she was having the affair with instead of cheating on her husband with him?
adultery causes so much problems and corruption in society, it needs a strong deterrent.
sorry 4 the long post, got a bit carried away
You've still not answered the question about how you know there was no evidence of rape against the girl or her lover (you stated that as fact, not opinion). I have given a link to a reputable news service that reported those acts.
Fundamentalism is flawed when it can't adapt to a changing world. The rules for Halal and Kosher food made perfect sense centuries ago, but with modern kitchen appliances and cooking practices they have become anachronisms. Similarly strict fundamental practices generally restrict personal liberties such as freedom of expression, voting rights, freedom of movement and so on. This is not solely the preserve of Islam, most of the major religions suffer from this to greater or lesser degrees. I find the practices of the Wee Frees in Scotland strange, similarly Orthodox Jews.
The problem I have with with Sharia law is that the punishments are so extreme (as in this case), they are extremely biased against women and the standards of proof are at best, low.
Fundamentalism is flawed when it can't adapt to a changing world. The rules for Halal and Kosher food made perfect sense centuries ago, but with modern kitchen appliances and cooking practices they have become anachronisms. Similarly strict fundamental practices generally restrict personal liberties such as freedom of expression, voting rights, freedom of movement and so on. This is not solely the preserve of Islam, most of the major religions suffer from this to greater or lesser degrees. I find the practices of the Wee Frees in Scotland strange, similarly Orthodox Jews.
The problem I have with with Sharia law is that the punishments are so extreme (as in this case), they are extremely biased against women and the standards of proof are at best, low.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
..and it can help breed medieval attitudes like the one this kid has.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
This is just rubbish. Think BSE, and then reconsider whether these rules belong to centuries ago, or whether they're still valid today. I say they're still valid today - do you want spinal cord or the meat of diseased animals in your food chain, or not? If Kosher/Halal rules had been followed, there'd have been no concern, since those are prohibited.MikeMcc said:
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
fattboy said:
Do you seriously believe that the punishment deemed fit by some countries for adultery acts as a deterrent?
invisibleplanet said:
exactly, when u halal or kosher a sheep 4 example, u use a sharp knife 2 cause minimum pain 2 the animal and cut across the main artery swiftly, avoiding cutting all the way 2 the spinal cord 2 avoid causing the animal any pain,the loss of blood 2 the brain causes it 2 drop out of conciousness straight away and the blood pumps out of the animal, which can carry many diseases.
thing about this method, it never fails 2 kill the animal, unlike the production line methods used elsewhere where they stun it and bolt it thru the head on a production line mechanically and they often survive 4 ages afterwards, causing extra unneccessary suffering and not draining the blood from the animal and causing a lot of distress.
it might not be pretty but its far and away the best method, for all involved.
also, Islamicallly, the meat should be Tayyib (good) , meaning not raised in some filty pen or battery farm and treated well
MikeMcc said:
again Mike, if theres any evidence, please bring it, id love 2 see it.
no-one admitted rape and no-one was convicted.
can u give an example of Islam not being able 2 adapt 2 changes in the world, Islam came 4 all people in all places, we have scholars who make rulings based on evidences from the sharia on new advances that didnt exist at the time of the revelation and havent been dealt with b4.
4 example, smoking, in Islam anything thats bad 4 ones health is 2 be avoided but at the time of the Prophet peace be upon him, smoking was unknown, but there r verses from the Quran and statements made by the Prophet peace be upon him which basically go along the lines of avoiding that which is harmful such as alcohol and this can be applied 2 smoking in light of the scientific evidence that smoking is harmful 2 ones health.
regarding pork, all the scientific evidence points 2 it not being good 2 eat, even the latest cooking methods cannot get rid of tiny harmful organisms it contains, the fact that pigs will eat anything including feaces and do not have the neccessary digestive abilities 2 purify what they eat and that doctors reccomend ppl in bad health 2 completely avoid it altogether should be enough proof of how harmful pork is 2 ur health.
nothing in Islam is prohibited just 4 the sake of it, theres a wisdom behind it, and women r protected in our religion, and in no way second class.
we believe men and women r equal, but not the same.
ive yet 2 see a man give birth or an army send units of solely women 2 fight while the men stay at home.
theres obvious differences, physically and emotionally, and men r the mantainers of women, responsible 4 looking after them,
this isnt degrading women its just recognising the obvious differences in our make up.
ill bring some proofs about the high status of women in Islam in a bit, GodWilling.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
No. Either staying together+relationship counselling, or separation or divorce with the welfare of the children as a top priority is the appropriate response.Blagsta said:
Blagsta said:
this is the prescribed punishment in the Sharia 4 someone whos married and commits adultery
if u dont believe in the hereafter where we r going 2 be judged 4 our actions, or that we face some bad consequences from it in this life its gonna be hard 4 u 2 accept
adultery in the wests been so downgraded its almost acceptable now, so i understand why u see it as heavyhanded, i used 2 think the same, i wasnt born in2 a muslim family and theres lots of things about Islam i used 2 think were harsh but when the proof of the truth of Islam is brought 2 u u just accept its 4 the best, our knowledge isnt absolute or perfect, only the One who Created us has that.
if u understand this u just accept the wisdom behind it.
we dont believe sex is wrong or dirty or anything like that, its something 2 be enjoyed but it has 2 be done within marriage because the problems that come otherwise r massive in many different ways.
its not nice 2 see happen, but this is what makes it such a strong deterrent.
invisibleplanet
porter des cornes
You're a revert?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
fattboy said:
Then why is adultery still being committed in countries that have such a strong punishment?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
invisibleplanet said:
He's a fucking retard.
Grandma death,because the burden of proof is so heavy, u need 2 have 4 witnesses that actually see the act, which is obviously gonna be a very rare thing.
4 someone 2 get caught theyd practically have 2 be doing it in the middle of town,
but the same way the deterrent aspect is enough 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 cheat on their spouse.
4 someone 2 get caught theyd practically have 2 be doing it in the middle of town,
but the same way the deterrent aspect is enough 4 most ppl that might be inclined 2 cheat on their spouse.
Similar threads
