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Saudi gang rape victim sentenced to lashes and prison

invisibleplanet said:
This confusion of cultural practice with religion is commonplace in Islamophobic commentators, who often omit contextual evidence which would undermine their judgement.

For example, a BBC documentary about "honour killing' in a Pakistani village showed a pre-teen boy who was “ordered to kill” his mother, and put under incredible pressure until he actually did it. The mother, a widow, left her house to go to work to feed her children without permission of the male villagers. When interviewed about how they could bring that in line with the commands of Al Qur'an the men said the killing *was* a command of Al Qur'an. When asked where in Al Qur'an that was ordered, they answered they could not tell (they couldn't read) but it was surely there. They were completely convinced and very stubborn about it.
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You made your 'black/white categorisation' based on this one post, quoted above, which was not a 'reading of Islam and Islamic cultures' - but one of many examples of media-distortion (esp. re. womens' rights), and it's subsequent and wrongful extrapolation to apply to 'all of Islam'.
 
butchersapron said:
So when you say market, you don't actually mean market. FFS.
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Classic. You define a market as a place where you sell something, I point out that one also buys in a market and I - with the wider definition so far - don't know what I'm talking about. Remarkable

butchersapron said:
And if you hadn't noticed the breakdown of the Natioanlised Iraqi oil system then you missed ten year of sanctions and needed investment.
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Another classic. There's us clearly talking about the desire to 'free' ownership of the nationalised Iraqi oil industry as a war aim and all of a sudden 'break down' means only infrastrutural decline under the impact of sanctions.

You seem to place a far higher value on appearing to score petty points than on honestly talking about things.
 
butchersapron said:
Yes, it has been. Do you disagree? Where and why? And why does this mean that the massive petro-dollars post-73 haven't been circulated or invested through the US. I said this to you already. Why the same post? It doesn't say that it's one way.
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Whatever. I'm still eagerly awaiting your examples of US pressure on SA. Just some facts, some events would be nice.
 
Spion said:
Classic. You define a market as a place where you sell something, I point out that one also buys in a market and I - with the wider definition so far - don't know what I'm talking about. Remarkable

Another classic. There's us clearly talking about the desire to 'free' ownership of the nationalised Iraqi oil industry as a war aim and all of a sudden 'break down' means only infrastrutural decline under the impact of sanctions.

You seem to place a far higher value on appearing to score petty points than on honestly talking about things.
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It's good this - i say that US invaded to take control of the energy resources in the areas and you say no it was for the markets. And now the market really means the same thing, Thats how we're playing this. Ok

What do you want me to say - the nationlised oil producion had broken down trot. Except for smuggling.

The fact is, you made a crude typical liberal claim about markets and now you're post facto looking for support. If you meant the US went into take control, of the oil then that's what you would have said - you didn't, you gave some guff about markets and are now trying to to pretend that you meant the buying/selling market. You can fuck up you know. It's ok.
 
butchersapron said:
I'm just letting it build up, that you don't know this basic fact...
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. . . and I've long quit pm'ing you in an attempt to politely ask you to back up your personal claims with hard facts. I've learned over time that you rarely back up your statements of opinion. (But here's hoping you'll forgive us all for our presumption that there's something factual behind the statements you make, since you now claim to love us all).
 
invisibleplanet said:
. . . and I've long quit pm'ing you in an attempt to politely ask you to back up your personal claims with hard facts. I've learned over time that you rarely back up your statements of opinion.
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Then i consider this day a personal victory. I can now look at my inbox without a heavy heart again.
 
butchersapron said:
It's good this - i say that US invaded to take control of the energy resources in the areas and you say no it was for the markets. And now the market really means the same thing, Thats how we're playing this. Ok

What do you want me to say - the nationlised oil producion had broken down trot. Except for smuggling.

The fact is, you made a crude typical liberal claim about markets and now you're post facto looking for support. If you meant the US went into take control, of the oil then that's what you would have said - you didn't, you gave some guff about markets and are now trying to to pretend that you meant the buying/selling market. You can fuck up you know. It's ok.
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Desparate :D
 
butchersapron said:
I'm just letting it build up, that you don't know this basic fact...
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That'd be funny if it wasn't so revealing of the lowness of your motives. Actually tho, it is pretty fucking funny :D
 
butchersapron said:
Indeed, the US invaded Iraq for markets....NO by market i meant OIL, yes that's it OIL...and the US putting pressure on the saudis? Conspiracy weirdo!
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If you want to know what I think rather than what you want to believe I think I've set out my views in a number of posts on this thread

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6912725&postcount=317

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6912788&postcount=323

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6912852&postcount=332
 
butchersapron said:
What by claiming that i've argued that it both is and that it isn't?

Pick one.
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Maybe you should pick one, or are you going back on your earlier statement that "The entire post-war Saudi regime has been dictated by the US."?.
 
sleaterkinney said:
Maybe you should pick one, or are you going back on your earlier statement that "The entire post-war Saudi regime has been dictated by the US."?.
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You said that SA also struk back I said yeah brother they did, you then went mental and asked asked me a question based on SA not being able to or not having struck back.

Sort it out.
 
butchersapron said:
What, you're obv an independent camel rider.
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Another butchersapron 'fact'.

Obviously (to me) you're unable to tell the difference between a camel and a thoroughbred stallion, but since you're clearly fuelled by a petty desire to 'win' over a desire for factuality, we're better to leave you to your camel-dung dreams and attempt debate with those who aren't as occult with the source of their knowledge as you yourself so obviously are.
 
You listening spion - a thoroughbred stallion :lol:

Win what, i've won -you demonstrated your inability to confront real life islamists, except by questioning how islamist they really are.
 
Do you mean to say you weren't alluding to my past-life as a multi-rosetted show-jumper?

You've won nothing. If your idea of 'confronting real life islamists' is gently challenging the scant knowledge of an newly reverted Muslim (a convert) whose belief system is under attack via media-demonisation and generalisation about his religion, then you've gorra lorra wising up to do, lad.
 
invisibleplanet said:
Do you mean to say you weren't alluding to my past-life as a multi-rosetted show-jumper?

You've won nothing. If your idea of 'confronting real life islamists' is gently challenging the scant knowledge of an newly reverted Muslim (a convert) whose belief system is under attack via media-demonisation and generalisation about his religion, then you've gorra lorra wising up to do, lad.
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I wasn't offering a model, but it was revealing how you dealt with it. Sickening too.
 
butchersapron said:
In what way, why can't SA strike back? You have some problems with this?
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Do you not think that that contradicts "The entire post-war Saudi regime has been dictated by the US."? or should that read "The entire post-war Saudi regime has been dictated by the US.(apart from the embargo)"?
 
sleaterkinney said:
Do you not think that that contradicts "The entire post-war Saudi regime has been dictated by the US."? or should that read "The entire post-war Saudi regime has been dictated by the US.(apart from the embargo)"?
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No, of course it doesn't contradict it.
 
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