Rotherham child rape gangs: At least 1400 victims

[Pickman's model]

Re: authors.

I’ve been doing it wrong for all the years I’ve been here then. Because I’ve often aired my disagreements with authors with whom I might otherwise agree on here before, and often without ever, taking it up with them directly.

In atonement I will now only discuss sojourner ‘s published output, but only after PMing her with my opinions.

((((sojourner)))))

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think I see where you're coming from - but the sleazeballs involved here weren't exploiting workers for profit, they were just rapists.

Forced/coerced prostitution also featured in the offending.

 

[Yossarian]

Forced/coerced prostitution also featured in the offending.

The thing I don't like about calling the rape gangs bourgeoisie is that it implies the girls were either workers or property - they were neither, though their abusers certainly acted like that was the case.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Re: authors.

I’ve been doing it wrong for all the years I’ve been here then. Because I’ve often aired my disagreements with authors with whom I might otherwise agree on here before, and often without ever, taking it up with them directly.

In atonement I will now only discuss sojourner ‘s published output, but only after PMing her with my opinions.

The point here, for me anyway and I as explained in my last post, is this:

If someone who you generally support politically and express ‘respect’ for writes something that you don’t understand or agree with, and that person is someone involved in activism and you are likely to see round and about, then it would be a good idea to discuss it with them.

If that person is very active on various social media then the chances to do so are plentiful and easy.

I’m really sorry if these suggestions have shocked urban to the core as this seem blindingly obvious to me.

Finally, the breach of this urban shibboleth - don’t talk to comrades and allies, talk here - has obscured three other things that have arisen - the important issues raised by Lisa’s article itself, the ongoing attempt to demonise her (not Magnus intention I accept) and the fact that on this occasion Magnus was talking out of his hole

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The thing I don't like about calling the rape gangs bourgeoisie is that it implies the girls were either workers or property - they were neither, though their abusers certainly acted like that was the case.

Well I suppose that rests on whether we consider sex work to be work. Difficult to say it isn’t work given it produces profit.

 

[Yossarian]

Well I suppose that rests on whether we consider sex work to be work. Difficult to say it isn’t work given it produces profit.

Sex work is work, but being raped isn't sex work - and the men who had sex with abused underage girls in Rotherham and elsewhere were rapists, not customers, whether or not they paid money to somebody.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The point here, for me anyway and I as explained in my last post, is this:

If someone who you generally support politically and express ‘respect’ for writes something that you don’t understand or agree with, and that person is someone involved in activism and you are likely to see round and about, then it would be a good idea to discuss it with them.

What makes you think I’m likely to see LM ‘round and about’? Apart from the bookfair I’m unlikely to bump into her as I’m simply not part of the scene that you assume I am.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Sex work is work, but being raped isn't sex work - and the men who had sex with abused underage girls in Rotherham and elsewhere were rapists, not customers, whether or not they paid money to somebody.

They’re still being exploited for profit whether the sex was agreed, coerced or forced.

 

[Yossarian]

They’re still being exploited for profit whether the sex was agreed, coerced or forced.

It's probably extremely wrong of me to hope that the men involved are now exploring similar issues around class dynamics, but with tobacco as the currency and themselves as the underclass.

 

[danny la rouge]

The point here, for me anyway and I as explained in my last post, is this:

If someone who you generally support politically and express ‘respect’ for writes something that you don’t understand or agree with, and that person is someone involved in activism and you are likely to see round and about, then it would be a good idea to discuss it with them.

If that person is very active on various social media then the chances to do so are plentiful and easy.

I’m really sorry if these suggestions have shocked urban to the core as this seem blindingly obvious to me.

Finally, the breach of this urban shibboleth - don’t talk to comrades and allies, talk here - has obscured three other things that have arisen - the important issues raised by Lisa’s article itself, the ongoing attempt to demonise her (not Magnus intention I accept) and the fact that on this occasion Magnus was talking out of his hole

I don’t know why you’re airing this on the boards instead of taking it up with me privately.

 

[danny la rouge]

I know there's two pages of nonsense since this post but are you really claiming that they are a different class because they raped indoors rather than outdoors? Properties just means buildings.

I don’t follow all of Magnus McGinty ‘s argument, to be honest, but he’s capable of looking after himself. However on the issue of the social and socioeconomic status of the perps, the Hussain family were business owners who were said to “own Rotherham” (Guilty: Mad Ash, Bash and Bono - gun-toting, grooming family who ‘owned’ Rotherham ). They were certainly not on a par with the girls as far as power and position was concerned. And to miss that would, I think, be to be missing an important point.

Indeed, a core feature of top down multiculturalism is that is deals with “community leaders”, which is how the authorities apparently viewed the Hussains and others for decades. That is a huge part of the dynamic here.

 

[butchersapron]

I don’t follow all of Magnus McGinty ‘s argument, to be honest, but he’s capable of looking after himself. However on the issue of the social and socioeconomic status of the perps, the Hussain family were business owners who were said to “own Rotherham” (Guilty: Mad Ash, Bash and Bono - gun-toting, grooming family who ‘owned’ Rotherham ). They were certainly not on a par with the girls as far as power and position was concerned. And to miss that would, I think, be to be missing an important point.

Indeed, a core feature of top down multiculturalism is that is deals with “community leaders”, which is how the authorities apparently viewed the Hussains and others for decades. That is a huge part of the dynamic here.

...and assumes that people are "poor immigrants".

 

[Magnus McGinty]

So I was right. Thanks chaps.

 

[19force8]

I don’t follow all of Magnus McGinty ‘s argument, to be honest, but he’s capable of looking after himself. However on the issue of the social and socioeconomic status of the perps, the Hussain family were business owners who were said to “own Rotherham” (Guilty: Mad Ash, Bash and Bono - gun-toting, grooming family who ‘owned’ Rotherham ). They were certainly not on a par with the girls as far as power and position was concerned. And to miss that would, I think, be to be missing an important point.

Agree about the Hussains, however LM's article was not about this case, but about the issue more generally. I thought it was this that Magnus McGinty was disagreeing with.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Agree about the Hussains, however LM's article was not about this case, but about the issue more generally. I thought it was this that Magnus McGinty was disagreeing with.

It’s as obvious as the day is long that there’s people involved in this who have money. My issue is that they were all deemed workers by virtue of being Asian. Hardly a controversial point?

 

[dshl]

I'd rather be, falsely, called a racist and speak out than allow this fucking awful shit to continue happen to young vulnerable girls. That people may have known about this and put themselves, their reputation and career first fucking sickness me. Anyone who knew about this and did nothing us complicit. Fuck them.

How did we get here though? A climate where you are having to stick your neck out, having to risk your reputation and livelihood, in order to protect children from being plied with alcohol, drugs and being gang raped?

 

[danny la rouge]

Agree about the Hussains, however LM's article was not about this case, but about the issue more generally. I thought it was this that Magnus McGinty was disagreeing with.

I’m not discussing LM’s article, but the situation in Rotherham.

 

[Pickman's model]

...and assumes that people are "poor immigrants".

Yeh ignoring that people can wear several appearances in different networks, poor immigrant in one, influential nonce in another.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not discussing LM’s article, but the situation in Rotherham.

Glad we've cleared that up

 

[danny la rouge]

Glad we've cleared that up

I’ve not read LM’s article yet, but clearly if I want to take part in the thread, I shouldn’t.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You should take it up with her directly.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’ve not read LM’s article yet, but clearly if I want to take part in the thread, I shouldn’t.

If that's what you think I advise you to read it then

 

[Pickman's model]

You should take it up with her directly.

No one's said you must but it is peculiar you, in particular, dismiss the notion out of hand

 

[19force8]

It’s as obvious as the day is long that there’s people involved in this who have money. My issue is that they were all deemed workers by virtue of being Asian. Hardly a controversial point?

But that is precisely what LM was challenging:

And also in the way that predominantly the left who appear to have misinterpreted anti-racism by creating ‘the victim’ and treating all ethnic minority groups as one dimensional people who have nothing but their exploitation, while at the same time holding people to their ‘white privilege’ without understanding or engaging in the politics of class and gender.

That fucking "left" again though.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Go back to my first post and start again. If you can be arsed.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Here’s an example where they had access to a restaurant to pimp out the girls. It doesn’t go into their occupations but how do you get access to a restaurant after hours without the owner’s complicity?

One of the victims told the court she and her friend were driven to a restaurant in Wellington, Telford, Shropshire, after hours.

Ringleader of Telford grooming gang is maimed in razor attack | Daily Mail Online

 

[two sheds]

you shouldn't be called a cunt for disagreeing with someone.

You've not quite got the hang of this place yet.

 

[Pickman's model]

You've not quite got the hang of this place yet.

You shouldn't be called a cunt for disagreeing with someone when there are so many other more imaginative insults

 

[two sheds]

You shouldn't be called a cunt for disagreeing with someone when there are so many other more imaginative insults

My mistake, apologies.

 

[Shechemite]

My mistake, apologies.

You've not quite got the hang of this place yet.

Glass houses and all that