riots in paris banlieu...

[where to]

well on a personal note, last night the riots (actually a lot of it i'd describe more as arson now) spread to within half a mile of my childhood home in yvellines. (lived there 0 through to 8 years)

a row of about twenty buses torched in a bus depot yard.

in another incident a bus full of disabled (and mixed race) passengers attacked by petrol bomb. i think a lot of cunts are using this situation to get away with shit they've been fantasing about for some time. harrowing interview with burqad passenger.

i actually think it might calm down a bit tonight.

 

[spring-peeper]

i actually think it might calm down a bit tonight.

I hope you are right.

Our main news is on at 11 pm gmt - I suppose I'll find out then if you are right.

please be right - please be right

 

[Sorry.]

It isn't a case of being fair, it is case of documented evidence of active resistance members in what was the most important area due to it covering all the prospective invasion beaches in Northern France.

But I wasn't arguing over whether resistance activities were effective in Normandy or not. I'm saying that participation was uneven across the country, and particularly poor in the area you cited.

It was not just a case of people doing fighting or blowing things up. It was intelligence gathering, mapping beach defences ect.

And all the people providing supplies, covering fighters tracks, putting up fighters, turning a blind eye etc.?

Also correct me if I am wrong but wasn't South Western France, Vichy with the French Milice being nearly as bad as the Gestapo in some cases.

Yes. Vichy was in the S/W.

 

[tobyjug]

But I wasn't arguing over whether resistance activities were effective in Normandy or not. I'm saying that participation was uneven across the country, and particularly poor in the area you cited.
.

It still was not the mythical large number of people. It also is not a case of being unfair or critical. I don't expect Britain would have been much different if occupied.

 

[where to]

Where to, find it surprising you're trying to argue that lack of integration isn't a problem. People coming together to kick off against the state wasn't really what i was meaning.

i'm not arguing that lack of integration isn't a problem. imo you can't have enough of the stuff. although that didn't help much in yugoslavia

but i'd argue that the lack of integration stems from problems on the ground, not the system. i'd say that the uk's take on the subject, what i see as segregated cultures, is far more anti-integration. and much more dangerous.

 

[where to]

Sarkozy was at the heart of reavmpaping the "assimilative" policy: see
http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?ID=165 for details.

Their policy is just downright racist and bigotted. If the tories brought it in in England there would be a riot, and thats for sure.

half of the things in that link are being brought in by blair right now though aren't they?

 

[where to]

Whoever mentioned segregation in terms of housing as being a problem in Bradford or wheverever is spot-on -- not that different from the banlieues.

that was me actually, but in fact it is different isn't it. i think if you go back to when these communities settled, they settled into segregated communities, if you look the french model, the french did not let them (and quite rightly imo) because the french system recognised the dangers of this. unfortunately, there was white flight in france and these areas are no longer as mixed as they were.

the kids in bradford talk about being totally lost, the kids in the banlieue speak of being disadvantaged. there is a world difference imo. both situations are fucked up, but imo the french philosophy is correct, but just hasn't worked in practice, whereas the uk situation is fucked up, but held together by wealth and spin. for now.

to be honest, i actually think you and i are largely agreeing with eachother.

 

[where to]

1. Integration is the policy we have in the UK, Assimlation is what the french have.

2. As to the housing issue, this is complex and many factors are involved. But creating a tolerant and "plural" society encourages people not to live in enclaves... a slow process, but a necessary one.

1. you've said this a few times now, and you've been asked to back it up. i'm guessing this idea comes from your own prejudices against french people. apart from a couple of bureaucratic nonsenses from sarkozy, you've not provided any evidence here.

2.the french system actively prevents ethnic enclaves (at the stage of dispersal). allowing such a folly is a sign of stupidity and inherent xenophobia, not tolerence.

 

[where to]

Interesting reading, but written in 2001 before the last French general election when France nearly sleepwalked the FN into power.

come come, how did they nearly sleepwalk the FN into power? thats nonsense.

 

[where to]

For me a big difference is in music and culture generally - the UK is a mixing pot culturally speaking, and thats why we are always at the cutting edge of musical genres, becasue everyone gets involved and integrates creating new fusions. Is there a style of music that hasn't been incorporated by the Britishm into a distinct British form? Can't be many left...

A general multiculturalism on mainstream primetime teevee may not reflect reality in every region, but is strong symbol of where the UK is at - In France, it seems to be, serge gainsburg is still seen as cutting edge, and johnny haliday is still rated. I seem to remember that there is a policy on French radio that sets a high quota for French music (and im not talking about mc solaar). There is a cultural protectionism, which whilst noble on some level, is just plain reactionary and isolationist and exclusive on others.

you don't think you'd get the same in the uk if america didn't exist and we were getting chinese music pumped at us 24/7.

i don't think you can take the music world as reflective of society mate.

 

[where to]

Sue, you mean "collabrateur" I guess?
Do they try and pin everything on a Pètain one man show?

hell we'd never have had collaborators here in the uk eh. heavens no.

fucking hell there was an SS unit made up of just brits alone wasn't there?

 

[where to]

I would certainly say that Paris (where I lived and the place I know most about in France) is a lot less integrated than London. I've a number of Francophone non-white friends who are trying to find jobs in London as (having previously lived there) they reckon it's a lot better racism-wise than Paris.

sounds about right - but london is not reflective of the whole of the uk.

 

[coastloop]

uuummmmm riots in Argentina

 

[where to]

decent article, not sure about the conclusion though, which seems to be hinting that these rioters/ arsonists will become suicide bombers:

independent

 

[TeeJay]

decent article, not sure about the conclusion though, which seems to be hinting that these rioters/ arsonists will become suicide bombers:

independent

I don't see it saying that.

My reading of the piece is that the journalist seems to be hoping that next time they would go en masse and ransack expensive shops in central Paris rather than destroy the poor neighbourhoods where they live.

The journalist actually says that there isn't any religious or political motivation behind it, and they say it is *mistaken* to link it to Islamists.

 

[where to]

fair enough, thats not how i read it though. i hope yr right, i was a bit disappointed it, but maybe yr right.

 

[where to]

yeah i think yr right.

 

[butchersapron]

It moves through the forms, and soon will understand itself.

 

[where to]

 

[davgraham]

It moves through the forms, and soon will understand itself.

blog site here with material directly translated . . . . and a nice litle promotional video for 'flash balls' [but in French]

see

http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/

 

[butchersapron]

Lovely, just what i was after Gra. Cheers.

 

[butchersapron]

From Gra's link: Read this

"It is right to rebel!"

 

[TeeJay]

Don't worry - butchers is off his head and posting shite tonight.

Moreso than usual.

 

[pbman]

Anyways i wonder how long it will take the french to surrender this time.

 

[TeeJay]

There you go butchers. Your guru has arrived.

 

[butchersapron]

Don't worry - butchers is off his head and posting shite tonight.

Moreso than usual.

Not a big fan of Hegel then Teejay?

 

[TeeJay]

No, not at all.

 

[butchersapron]

Hence your stupefication when presented with a very brief precis and your putting it down to the beer. Someone else got me though.

(I'm not responding on this thread, feel free on any of the others)

 

[TeeJay]

"The height of audacity in serving up pure nonsense, in stringing together senseless and extravagant mazes of words, such as had been only previously known in madhouses, was finally reached in Hegel, and became the instrument of the most barefaced, general mystification that has ever taken place, with a result which will appear fabulous to posterity, as a monument to German stupidity." Schopenhauer

 

[kasheem]

For those of you who say you support this bullshit because of some 'class war' theory you read in a book once, think again. The victims of this are 95% lower middle or working class, both in material damage and violence against people. The real losers are the ordinary white people in those areas who are being targetted by the scumbags. It's the whole community that is being destroyed here for decades to come.

Rioting is not revolutionary, it's pure lunacy.