riots in paris banlieu...
- Thread starter DaveCinzano
- Start date
_pH_ said:
Working at Mcdonalds is better than no job.
What do you expect from the French government to do? Drop Euros from a plane?
You see, I criticize their system but I sprinkle in suggestions for fixing the system. Some tax breaks to private French business to hire more people (though I doubt the French government has much money for that) and curbing restrictions on benefits for new hires. Lessen the cost of French employers to hire new workers.
If you have any suggestions I am all ears.
Joblessness in France is 22.2 percent for men under 25 years old, compared with 7.8 percent for men aged 25 to 49, according to the Labor Ministry. France doesn't include ethnicity in its census nor does it publish poverty or unemployment statistics based on ethnicity or religion.
Among 20- to 24-year-olds living in French suburbs whose residents are predominantly Muslim, the jobless rate during the1999 census was 37.2 percent for men, compared with the national average of 22.5 percent, and 39.5 percent for women, compared with 28.4 percent. The figures come from a 2003 report for the prime minister by the High Council for Integration.
Among 20- to 24-year-olds living in French suburbs whose residents are predominantly Muslim, the jobless rate during the1999 census was 37.2 percent for men, compared with the national average of 22.5 percent, and 39.5 percent for women, compared with 28.4 percent. The figures come from a 2003 report for the prime minister by the High Council for Integration.
citydreams
on the road again
I wonder what proporiton of those jobs are casual labour.
citydreams
on the road again
mears said:
There has to be money for the businesses to be successful. where do you suppose that comes from?
citydreams
on the road again
*
citydreams
on the road again
pbman said:
As patriotic as ever.
I've heard that people in France who are actually *in work* have very good terms and conditions, which on the face of it should be a "good thing" for "the working class" (if you like those terms).
But bigger barriers to laying people off and increased costs of hiring people mean that businesses can't provide as many jobs (nor can they take advantage of any short-term opportunities) leaving more people out of work and excluded.
France also hides behind "anti-globalisation" and "protecting national identity" rhetoric in its refsual to change the EU Common Agricultural Programme - something that is realy fucking over farmers in poor countries and sucking EU money into France that should by rights be going to far poorer Eastern European countries who have just joined.
If this exclusion is combined with racism and xenophobia that can hide behind the more noble ideals of "secularism" and "egalitarianian Frenchness", and combined with a tendancy to gravitate towards authoritarian/militaristic patriarchial government (again hiding behind supposedly idealistic "Republican" concepts) then I would argue you have a problem which is going to be hard to unpick.
The ironic thing is that there are plenty of French multinationals and various French politicans are actually introducing privatisation and neo-liberal policies even while mouthing off the very opposite in public. But because they aren't brave enough to say what they are doing and argue their case (they have their eye on their careers and just say what they think people want to hear) they can't actually carry these things through properly and leave the door open to the far right when people get fed up with being lied to.
But bigger barriers to laying people off and increased costs of hiring people mean that businesses can't provide as many jobs (nor can they take advantage of any short-term opportunities) leaving more people out of work and excluded.
France also hides behind "anti-globalisation" and "protecting national identity" rhetoric in its refsual to change the EU Common Agricultural Programme - something that is realy fucking over farmers in poor countries and sucking EU money into France that should by rights be going to far poorer Eastern European countries who have just joined.
If this exclusion is combined with racism and xenophobia that can hide behind the more noble ideals of "secularism" and "egalitarianian Frenchness", and combined with a tendancy to gravitate towards authoritarian/militaristic patriarchial government (again hiding behind supposedly idealistic "Republican" concepts) then I would argue you have a problem which is going to be hard to unpick.
The ironic thing is that there are plenty of French multinationals and various French politicans are actually introducing privatisation and neo-liberal policies even while mouthing off the very opposite in public. But because they aren't brave enough to say what they are doing and argue their case (they have their eye on their careers and just say what they think people want to hear) they can't actually carry these things through properly and leave the door open to the far right when people get fed up with being lied to.
lostexpectation
New Member
outcome/end?
so how can any good come out of this for communities affected?
end: the police seem to have started to arrest as many as possible
does urban have an ignore list *thinks of pbman etc*
so how can any good come out of this for communities affected?
end: the police seem to have started to arrest as many as possible
does urban have an ignore list *thinks of pbman etc*
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
lostexpectation said:
He's just upset that posters here seem to care more about France than the US and he is throwing a temper tantrum.
I'm sure that's why he started his thread on MM, jealous of all the attention that France is getting.
Maidmarian
Stubborn Socialist
mears said:
Really ?
Please suggest changes to French labour laws which would give the desired effect ?? ????
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Maidmarian said:
Cite there policies on economic development for small businesses and I'm sure that several of us have enough experience in these matters to suggest improvements.
I know that I can - I work with this segment of the government in Canada.
mears said:
If there's any banks left in one piece!
The dispossesed have moved from their concrete jungles to central Paris, and many other French cities, hence the bleating from the politicians. Imagine if they moved out of the cities to take the chateuax - the capitalists worst nightmare
RhymnRzn
anti-doter
I just want to say that if there is one mouth on these bulletin boards that likes to order up a burger to eat it, but, shows even the least amount of contempt for the poor and working people, that they should be denied full well every bit of wage and sabbath of day and of year and honour (they make your burger), and, if this person has even a remote thought that they are too good to cook it for others with godly reverence for your neighbors (we are all in God's image): then seven times worse for every cracking of the political/econimic whip be returned upon the very person, by God. I'm sick and tired of this wicked oppressive talk.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
are you on drugs, son?
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
yes, either drugs or drain cleaner.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
0/10
The ever excellent 'kersplebdeb' continues to update their blog
look here
http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/2005/11/week-of-rebellion-against-socia
l.html
and here is a report aimed at North Americans trying to give some background to what is going on
http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/11/why_is_france_b.
html
Gra
look here
http://sketchythoughts.blogspot.com/2005/11/week-of-rebellion-against-socia
l.html
and here is a report aimed at North Americans trying to give some background to what is going on
http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/11/why_is_france_b.
html
Gra
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
How did you work that out? Do you know how much McDonalds pay their workers?
There's probably an interesting comparative question here. If we accept that France is slightly less socially dysfunctional than the anglo-saxon economies*, then why is it the les cites and not the council estates that are erupting in this way?
(although, obviously they have done in the past. But on this scale and for this duration?)
Uniquely poor policing? (In terms of racism? In terms of brutality?)
Concentration of social problems?
Stronger subversive infrastructures?
Ineffective disciplinary functions? (Is the prevalance of low-pay, low-skill, insecure work in the UK acting as a means of controlling dissent?)
Or is this a flavour of what we have to come?
(although, obviously they have done in the past. But on this scale and for this duration?)
Uniquely poor policing? (In terms of racism? In terms of brutality?)
Concentration of social problems?
Stronger subversive infrastructures?
Ineffective disciplinary functions? (Is the prevalance of low-pay, low-skill, insecure work in the UK acting as a means of controlling dissent?)
Or is this a flavour of what we have to come?
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