Riot going on now in Bristol - Stokes Croft

[Gerry1time]

Point of order - it's not a Metro, it's a Tesco Extra

was a Tesco Extra

It was a Tesco Express, akshully

 

[agricola]

surely the fire brigade would have had to be present for the removal of 'petrol bombs'? just speculating here obviously, don't actually know much about how dangerous petrol bombs are.

not really, given what a petrol bomb usually comprises of, the disposal of them is not really something that they would deal with - except in France, where if I recall their firemen threw some at the CRS a few years back.

 

[strung out]

fair enough

 

[embree]

surely the fire brigade would have had to be present for the removal of 'petrol bombs'? just speculating here obviously, don't actually know much about how dangerous petrol bombs are.

Depends whether they're lit or not Someone's made the point on Indymedia that it'd be sheer madness to be stockpiling petrol bombs in there at a time when the bailiffs are trying to evict them. They'd be fucked.

Yea, but is it kicking off tonight?

Fairly normal Friday night out there. It's noisy and a bit nuts but that's fairly normal tbh

It was a Tesco Express, akshully

Fucking knew I'd got that wrong!

 

[embree]

fair enough

yeah, the fire brigade chucking petrol bombs at the riot police is fair enough. I endorse this

 

[suburbia]

Where they would be expected to be - in the fire station; the raid was (according to the superintendent on the BBC during the day) aimed at disrupting a planned attack, not to respond to something that had already happened.

If there was a raid aimed at intercepting explosive material on my road, I'd find the presence of an appropriate fire appliance far more reassuring than an extra police draft, but each to their own.

 

[embree]

That's actually not a bad piece as it goes. A little breathless and you can tell she was 200 miles away but still better than the crap that has been printed elsewhere, which is basically Avon And Somerset plods press releases.

(Of course, that doesn't deal with how and why she gets yo write something rather than someone else)

Finally got round to reading it and I agree. Pretty accurate stuff, speaking as someone who was present throughout, so she's clearly given priority to just reporting other people's eye witness accounts in a readable way. Good stuff on the wider community stuff beyond just Tesco. She does surprise me

 

[bingiman]

It is all so predictable especially with a royal wedding coming up. Anarchists are the flavour of the month.

Leave an 'abandoned' van to be trashed for the mainstream news. Build the case for investment in the police not cuts. It is so blatant it is tawdry.

Tesco destroys localism and whether capitalist or not that is all we have left. I have no worries with a few trashed windows but I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt.

But people are still stupid. Everything is on the internet and drawing attention to pictures, whether redcacted later or not misses the point that everything is still available to the authorities.

Superglue in the locks in the middle of the night is surely the way to go. The most pure social media in the world.

 

[embree]

To be fair I'm not now sure that car was abandoned deliberately. They hared out of the area very quickly in response to effectively ending up surrounded and losing control. I think it was a very hurried withdrawal to regroup and the car did get forgotten about.

atm I'm focused on the immediate consequences for my community so as far as winning people around to arguments is concerned fuck it - we'll do what we need to to defend ourselves. The approval of the rest of the world can wait

 

[agricola]

If there was a raid aimed at intercepting explosive material on my road, I'd find the presence of an appropriate fire appliance far more reassuring than an extra police draft, but each to their own.

you do know what petrol bombs are usually made of, right?

 

[bingiman]

you do know what petrol bombs are usually made of, right?

I am suprised no one is complaining about the price of petrol bombs...

 

[bingiman]

atm I'm focused on the immediate consequences for my community so as far as winning people around to arguments is concerned fuck it - we'll do what we need to to defend ourselves. The approval of the rest of the world can wait

I agree with 99% but don't forget the world, you are part of it. As am I.

 

[embree]

Of course. But we need to be able to control our bit of it before we do the rest. I think we drew a line in the sand last night

 

[bingiman]

control our bit of it before we do the rest. I think we drew a line in the sand last night

which is always a good thing.

 

[Streathamite]

All local residents, many local residents or just some rather odd local residents and their chums from Montpelier? Is there any reason to think the opponents of Tesco are representative of people in the area?

It would be good to have more democracy in planning decisions - perhaps by means of referendum in the relevant ward or wards.



From that article:

Roger Cole, who ran an organic food shop in Stokes Croft, said: "A lot of people feel we should protest until Tesco goes away. This campaign is already costing Tesco a fortune coming here in the teeth of such opposition, and hopefully sooner or later they will get fed up."

Ah, a petit bourgeois purveyor of crank food fails to compete effectively against a large company and so turns to vandalism as a business strategy! Great!



There's another Tesco Express opening soon just five minutes from where I live. I notice it every day on my way to work. When I see it I don't feel like those young rioters on Stokes Croft. On the contrary, I think: (i) some much-needed jobs will be created, (ii) it's good that the building which was empty and delapidated is now being done up and used and (iii) I bet the prices will be better in Tesco Express than in the mini-markets on the same road against which the new Tesco Express will be competing.

don't forget to renew your Monday Club membership next month

 

[embree]

Just had a late night stroll - all quiet on the western front, normal Friday night stuff, Telepathic squat closed up but clearly occupied and with one or two on watch outside. Counted seven cops guarding Tesco, three vehicles parked outside including a van. They seem to have taken the wise option of keeping a low profile everywhere else. Took a look round the back of Tesco to see how Gerry1time's mate's allegation of loads of looting out that way stacked up but it's a dark alley and realised I didn't want to startle any edgy security who may have been round there.

That's it, nothing else to report

 

[suburbia]

you do know what petrol bombs are usually made of, right?

Many raw materials commonly found in and around the home will also have the desired effect, or so I'm told but as the news apparently concerned ready mades, and it's not completely unknown for the fire service to be in attendance when such activity is disturbed, I merely wondered if anyone had seen it.

If someone is suspected of making bombs, I'd expect them to also be suspected of being prepared to use them either by the time the police got to the scene or during the raid, hence my query.

 

[spliff]

Well, if I was a tactician with Avon & Somerset police last night and I received 'Intelligence'* that there was a planned petrol bomb attack on Tesco Express I would have placed a couple of plod outside Tesco for deterrence and raided the alleged 'bomb factory' about 6-6.30am.

Unless of course I was pressured from above to put on a show relating to underfunding for a beleaguered police force.

*oxymoron

 

[shagnasty]

Quite a primitive weapon but could be effective.I always thought it is no more than a rag ,glass bottle some petrol.The old bill keep harping on about petrol bombs, but i have not seen one ,do they expect they could be used or is this just a scare tactic

 

[Giles]

i could be completely wrong here, but it sounds like they tried evicting the squat, it all went a bit wrong, so they've tried covering it up by fabricating some reports about acting on intelligence over petrol bombs. as things stand, the squat remains in place and those arrested will be released fairly soon, with petrol bombs never mentioned again?

how plausible does that sound?

Whatever people think of rights and wrongs of them doing an eviction, someone fucked up here.

The fuzz have years of experience to know that if you turn up at 5.30am and turf your intended targets out of bed, you'll have much less of a "public order issue" than steaming in mob-handed right in the zone of people being the most drunk, and on the first night of what is going to be a 4 day piss-up, giving the whole neighbourhood an excuse to join in and feel a sense of grievance, even amongst those who frankly don't care any more about the wider issues of Tesco than a pig cares about free speech.

Even if someone without practical experience was in charge, you'd have hoped that, like the old sergeant "advising" the inexpierenced officer, someone would have said "don't provoke a brawl, especially on Friday night, and double especially on the first night of a bank holiday weekend"?

Giles..

 

[Giles]

Many raw materials commonly found in and around the home will also have the desired effect, or so I'm told but as the news apparently concerned ready mades, and it's not completely unknown for the fire service to be in attendance when such activity is disturbed, I merely wondered if anyone had seen it.

If someone is suspected of making bombs, I'd expect them to also be suspected of being prepared to use them either by the time the police got to the scene or during the raid, hence my query.

Did they actually arrest anyone for even having an actual petrol bomb, part-filled bottles with rags stuffed in the top, as opposed to a "potential" petrol bomb, which could be taken to mean anyone's house that happened to contain the potential ingredients?

Did they?

If not, this is on a par with arresting pretyy much anyone for "potentially" causing an affray on the basis that their kitchen drawer contained a few potential weapons.

Giles..

 

[Giles]

So far as I am aware not one single Tesco Express that I know of replaced an empty shop, they were ALL independent shops that Tesco bought up. I'm sure they have built some on empty sites, but it doesn't seem to be the norm. So what actually happens in most cases is that NO jobs are created. No new resources come into the local community. However the choices of local people are reduced still further.

Judging by much of the comment elseweb on this there seem to be a huge number of people who basically condemn anyone who differs from them in any way, and who would be perfectly happy with no choice at all provided everything they see is branded with a logo they recognise from TV, and nobody is asking them to do anything difficult such as thinking.

You wouldn't even need any kind of council permission to buy or rent an existing shop premises and open it as your shop. Whether you are selling the same stuff or something different. In planning terms, a shop is a shop (A1 use). A prospective shop keeper does not need the permission or approval of the council or local residents to open for business.

Whether this is "right" is another question.

Should any prospective shopkeeper have to submit himself to a panel of locals who could veto his right to open for business?

Or only if you are Tesco?

Giles..

 

[embree]

However you do need a licence to sell alcohol. That's something you need to apply for. Also planning permission for shop front etc

 

[JHE]

don't forget to renew your Monday Club membership next month

Isn't it full of small businessmen? Rather like that 'organic' wotsit rioter who hates supermarkets and that bike shop owner whose window shouldn't have been broken, we are told. I suppose the haircuts are different.

 

[Giles]

However you do need a licence to sell alcohol. That's something you need to apply for. Also planning permission for shop front etc

You are right about this.

However I'm pretty sure that when it comes to the council approving an "off licence" they are only allowed to consider a limited range of things. Provided the person applying has no bad history for selling booze to underage teens or to those who could be said by a reasonable shop assistant to have "had enough" already, and that the shop doesn't have some reputation as THE place that the super-lager and quite frightening cider drinkers refuel and hang around, I think they are pretty much bound to give it. Until some years ago, there WAS taken into consideration whether the licencing magistrates felt that the area did or did not NEED another offie. This was the same also with bookies. Until some bunch of politicians - not sure if tory or nu-liebour, swept away such fuddy duddy notions of social responsibility and began to consider bookies and bottle shops as businesses vital to revive the economy. Yeah, right.

Giles..

 

[ericjarvis]

I am suprised no one is complaining about the price of petrol bombs...

That's because Sainsbury's are doing a three for the price of two promotion at the moment. No idea why.

 

[suburbia]

If not, this is on a par with arresting pretyy much anyone for "potentially" causing an affray on the basis that their kitchen drawer contained a few potential weapons.

I don't doubt it.

 

[ddraig]

squatters don't give a shit about tesco and there was only 4 of them
Bristol squatters deny Tesco attack and petrol bomb claims
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/23/bristol-squatters-tesco-attack-petrol-claims?CMP=twt_iph

Around 160 police officers in riot gear raided the squat in the Stokes Croft area to arrest a number of people they said posed "a real threat to the local community".

But the operation sparked violent protests amid allegations of heavy-handed tactics. Eight police officers were injured and recently opened Tesco store was badly damaged. Nine protesters were arrested, four of whom appeared before Bristol magistrateson Saturday. None of the four squatters remaining in the building were arrested.

Houghton and Salim Noormohammad, also 28, told the Observer that the police raid had been violent and unwarranted.

According to the squatters, the night the police arrived most of those living in the house had already moved out. The group had been in contact with Bristol city council's empty homes agency and were removing the last of their stuff.

"We were working on tidying the place up, as you do – it's a house, so it's got to be tidy," says Houghton.

 

[spliff]

Avon and Somerset police maintain that the operation was justified and said its officers had found petrol bombs on the roof of the building which had been taken away for tests.

If it's anything like the squat I where I lived in Wicklow St, Kings Cross in the late 70's, analysis will reveal half empty bottles of cider and half full bottles of piss.

It was hard to tell the difference and sometimes it didn't matter.

 

[Chuff]

petrol bombs, used to cost about £2 for 24, milk crate and a plastic thingy (rag was free)

Now costs:
30p per bottle in petrol (fucking barrel bandits)
2:40 for a vintage crate
£12 for 12 lucozaide bottles