Right wingers less intelligent

[butchersapron]

Why, you want to call out the cowardly squad for another group attack, and then feel all big and chuffed with yourself as you're such a brave little man.

Well yes, but i'm also interested in establishing what is the political manifestation of icke-ism - i've argued before that it's US style libertarianism. That you as the leading ickette on here offered friedman might well back this suggestionm up, or it may be the first right-winger that popped into your brain. Hence the question.

 

[faux pas]

the first right-winger that popped into your brain. Hence the question.

Try reading quotes with a bit more precision, rather than just jumping in like a child with ADD.

 

[butchersapron]

Try reading quotes with a bit more precision, rather than just jumping in like a child with ADD.

Er..you asked:

Was Friedman stupid then?

And i asked if you had an ideological affinity with Friedman or whether it was just the first right-winger that you could think of that you saw as intelligent. What, where was my sloppiness? Why so reluctant - again - to answer a simple question?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Was Friedman stupid then?

One thing he wasn't, was stupid.
There's a case to be made for his economics capturing the zeitgeist of the time, and being more to do with faith in ideology than to do with sound economic analysis, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You don't know if he was a 'genius' or a 'fairly intelligent person'

If he'd truly been a genius he'd have been able to formulate his theories a lot better than he did, and to have covered up the fact that they can't work even in the sort of "laboratory" environment in which he formulated them a lot better.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you going to out yourself as a libertarian now as well as a ickette faux pas?

Proper libertarian, or the Septic kind?

E2A: Ah, the Septic kind.

Hawks, spits.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why, you want to call out the cowardly squad for another group attack, and then feel all big and chuffed with yourself as you're such a brave little man.

Interesting. Rather than accepting the possibility that you might be wrong, any mass questioning of what you say is a "group attack" by "the cowardly squad", and conducted by people who only do so in order for them to feel better about themselves.

 

[DotCommunist]

it may be attractive to view right wingers as uniformly dumb but one should never underestimate the enemy. They don't get to hold the ideological ground and common attitudes by stupidity. I'd like to say low cunning but lets face it, it is the fucking US hegemony and rabid post war anti communism and active demolishing of any socialist models. Fucking Hoover.

 

[faux pas]

Interesting. Rather than accepting the possibility that you might be wrong, any mass questioning of what you say is a "group attack" by "the cowardly squad", and conducted by people who only do so in order for them to feel better about themselves.

Well, I don't believe David Icke is anti-semetic, and your particular 'evidence' was non-existent, and the rest rested on a specific interpretation of 'Rothschild Zionism', and positive stereotypes that would hold Icke to higher standards than most of the mass media, etc.

So, why the hell would I accept I was 'wrong' unless it was to save me from an attack and insults from a group on a specifically left leaning forum? I'm not that insecure.

If you take the way Gmart was treated, it was frankly disgusting. Someone in the end 'genuinely' wished him to suffer. If you're a good person, VP, with good intentions, you wouldn't take part in that. You can disagree with someone, explain why you think they're wrong, in a genuinely decent way. You would do good to try it some time.

To the Butcher guy: No, Friedman didn't just pop into my head. He was brought up in the actual quote I was referring to, if you had bothered to read it, instead of reading into things.

As for Friedman, I would have thought he would be an object of hate for Icke, being that he defended the existence of the corporate world, which Icke views as a tool of the illuminati.

 

[frogwoman]

turn off the internet and the bad voices will go away.

 

[Idris2002]

turn off the internet and the bad voices will go away.

Ah if only it were that simple.

 

[frogwoman]

And the fact that people hate icke and his acolytes on this forum isn't because we want to torture innocent truthseekers or anything. I've got a very low tolerance for that sort of passive aggressive shit, "oh he's bullying me!" etc. Boo fucking hoo, that will teach you not to promote your hero's gospels on here as fact when they have been comprehensively disproved.

People who go by icke's view of the world tend to get short shrift on here because of the fact of how damaging this shit has been to the left (if you want a good example of this, look at what's happened with the occupy movement in some areas). it promotes the idea that the banking system rather than capitalism itself is the problem and worse than this, presents the problem as being individuals (forget the anti-semitism stuff for the time being) who are doing EVIL STUFF like HUMAN SACRIFICES and DRESSING UP AS OWLS rather than the problem being a set of social/economic relations and the fact that a profit driven system like capitalism will always end up being based on exploitation until it is overthrown. It's not about individuals and the fact that they're into human sacrifices and shit is irrelevant, and insulting.

These people are scum. I don't think anyone is arguing any different. But you have to realise that the shit Icke talks about is not useful or helpful. The fact that say Foxconn in China has had to install nets to stop workers committing suicide for example, is nothing to do with the "bloodline" of the people who ran the company or giant lizards, they don't do human sacrifices or control people's thoughts through the television or any of that. Capitalism is bad enough without the need to invent shit and its victims are killed without the need for huge coverups or sinister rituals.

The anti-semitism stuff has been done to death over and over again (which is one of the reasons why people get so fucking annoyed with Icke lovers on here) but I'll quickly say that for fuck's sake, do some fucking research on what the protocols are and see if you can "join the dots" as to why people on here might have took exception to the idea of Icke using them and then saying that the white race had some special origins. In addition to the theories about the illuminati etc, see who used them, who popularised them.

 

[frogwoman]

And in the mean time knock the passive aggressive whining on the head. It's fucking pathetic.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well, I don't believe David Icke is anti-semetic...

I'm not interested in your beliefs. I'm interested in analysis, in facts and theories. I'm not even positivistic about analysis being grounded, as long as it's well tought through.

...and your particular 'evidence' was non-existent, and the rest rested on a specific interpretation of 'Rothschild Zionism', and positive stereotypes that would hold Icke to higher standards than most of the mass media, etc.

All this being, of course, having been interpreted in light of your belief.

You see what I'm getting at, here?

So, why the hell would I accept I was 'wrong' unless it was to save me from an attack and insults from a group on a specifically left leaning forum? I'm not that insecure.

You're playing the victim. It's not necessary to accept that you're wrong. It's not even necessary for you to accept an alternative POV. What should be necessary, if your opinion of yourself has any validity to you, is to accept that your beliefs around Icke, while valid to you, may fly in the face of the experience of other posters. This is something you refused to do, and dismmissed with snidey asides.

So, maybe insecurity is a matter of perception.

If you take the way Gmart was treated, it was frankly disgusting.

When someone enters threads it's on the premise of participation in that thread. What GMart has done over and over again is enter threads with little intent to participate beyond pushing his own narrow set of political ideas. That's the main reason for him being treated in a way you quantify as "frankly disgusting" - because posters get pissed off with his dogmatic insistence that he's right, and that they're wrong unless and until they agree with him. You can't divorce his treatment from it's historical context.

Someone in the end 'genuinely' wished him to suffer.

Which is their problem.

If you're a good person, VP, with good intentions, you wouldn't take part in that.
You can disagree with someone, explain why you think they're wrong, in a genuinely decent way.

Moralism. You applying yours to others. Why would I pay any attention to it

You would do good to try it some time.

Would I? According to your moral compass, perhaps. According to my own, who knows except me?

 

[Roadkill]

^ Well said, Froggy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

it may be attractive to view right wingers as uniformly dumb but one should never underestimate the enemy. They don't get to hold the ideological ground and common attitudes by stupidity. I'd like to say low cunning but lets face it, it is the fucking US hegemony and rabid post war anti communism and active demolishing of any socialist models. Fucking Hoover.

Treating them as "uniformly dumb" is positively stupid if you're an adherent of the principle to "know your enemy".

 

[frogwoman]

Some people would think that promoting damaging anti-working class and anti-semitic shit wrapped in up in a shallow commericalised mysticism as being "fucking disgusting".

 

[ViolentPanda]

And the fact that people hate icke and his acolytes on this forum isn't because we want to torture innocent truthseekers or anything. I've got a very low tolerance for that sort of passive aggressive shit, "oh he's bullying me!" etc. Boo fucking hoo, that will teach you not to promote your hero's gospels on here as fact when they have been comprehensively disproved.

P/A is an excellent tactic for repelling/refusing to admit criticism, though, especially in mediated conversational formats like on bulletin boards.

People who go by icke's view of the world tend to get short shrift on here because of the fact of how damaging this shit has been to the left (if you want a good example of this, look at what's happened with the occupy movement in some areas). it promotes the idea that the banking system rather than capitalism itself is the problem and worse than this, presents the problem as being individuals (forget the anti-semitism stuff for the time being) who are doing EVIL STUFF like HUMAN SACRIFICES and DRESSING UP AS OWLS rather than the problem being a set of social/economic relations and the fact that a profit driven system like capitalism will always end up being based on exploitation until it is overthrown. It's not about individuals and the fact that they're into human sacrifices and shit is irrelevant, and insulting.

It's always been far easier for some people to view social and economic relations under capitalism as the result of the deviant acts of a minority of "evildoers", rather than face the obvious fact of a systemic problem that sees a minority of undeserving but not deliberately evil pillagers perpetuate social and economic instability in the name of accumulation.

These people are scum. I don't think anyone is arguing any different. But you have to realise that the shit Icke talks about is not useful or helpful. The fact that say Foxconn in China has had to install nets to stop workers committing suicide for example, is nothing to do with the "bloodline" of the people who ran the company or giant lizards, they don't do human sacrifices or control people's thoughts through the television or any of that. Capitalism is bad enough without the need to invent shit and its victims are killed without the need for huge coverups or sinister rituals.

Although, if you're being scrupulously fair, sinister rituals can be fun.

The anti-semitism stuff has been done to death over and over again (which is one of the reasons why people get so fucking annoyed with Icke lovers on here) but I'll quickly say that for fuck's sake, do some fucking research on what the protocols are and see if you can "join the dots" as to why people on here might have took exception to the idea of Icke using them and then saying that the white race had some special origins. In addition to the theories about the illuminati etc, see who used them, who popularised them.

See how mind-numbingly quotidian they are, too.

 

[frogwoman]

I hate passive aggression more than normal aggression tbh.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Some people would think that promoting damaging anti-working class and anti-semitic shit wrapped in up in a shallow commericalised mysticism as being "fucking disgusting".

To be fair, shallow, commercialised mysticism is a good medium for selling "snake oil". The nature of the medium attracts just the right (at least for the seller) kind of customer.

 

[faux pas]

I'm not interested in your beliefs. I'm interested in analysis, in facts and theories. I'm not even positivistic about analysis being grounded, as long as it's well tought through.

You're playing the victim. It's not necessary to accept that you're wrong. It's not even necessary for you to accept an alternative POV. What should be necessary, if your opinion of yourself has any validity to you, is to accept that your beliefs around Icke, while valid to you, may fly in the face of the experience of other posters. This is something you refused to do, and dismmissed with snidey asides.

So, maybe insecurity is a matter of perception.

And what other posters have to say could 'fly in the face of my experience'. We're simply just left with how you treat those who believe differently to you. Evidently, according to your 'moral compass', we should treat them like shit. Ironic, really, being that the left often like to present themselves as having the moral high ground. But as you allude to, maybe there is no basis for any objective morality, and what is down for me is up for you, and vice versa. Maybe when you're treating them like shit, you do it with a warm heart

 

[Citizen66]

Lol.

 

[frogwoman]

And what other posters have to say could 'fly in the face of my experience'. We're simply just left with how you treat those who believe differently to you. Evidently, according to your 'moral compass', we should treat them like shit. Ironic, really, being that the left often like to present themselves as having the moral high ground. But as you allude to, maybe there is no basis for any objective morality, and what is down for me is up for you, and vice versa. Maybe when you're treating them like shit, you do it with a warm heart

If they believe, as icke does, the protocols of the elders of zion are anything more than anti-semitic shit and refuse to accept alternative views of it they should be treated like shit yes.

 

[Citizen66]

Or that Icke adherents are nothing but scifi fans and the politically gullible/lazy.

 

[frogwoman]

Anyway surely for the brave enlightened truthseekers there are greater things to fear, such as bohemian grove human sacrifices and the wrath of the ZOG machine than being called a cunt by someone on the internet. So why worry about the words of us sheeple?

 

[faux pas]

Anyway surely for the brave enlightened truthseekers there are greater things to fear, such as bohemian grove human sacrifices and the wrath of the ZOG machine than being called a cunt by someone on the internet. So why worry about the words of us sheeple?

It doesn't 'worry' me. It makes me think less of you, which you couldn't give a fuck about, so no one loses.

 

[frogwoman]

It doesn't 'worry' me. It makes me think less of you, which you couldn't give a fuck about, so no one loses.

It evidently does bother you otherwise you wouldn't keep going on about it.

Anyway, if Icke's telling the truth about the government, the Illuminati, etc how come he hasn't been killed yet? Capitalist governments are good at doing that to people they don't like who reveal inconvenient truths.

 

[faux pas]

It evidently does bother you otherwise you wouldn't keep going on about it.

The cognitive dissonance that allows you to treat people like shit yet think you have the moral high ground, is quite interesting, actually.

 

[frogwoman]

Get over yourself ffs.

 

[faux pas]

Anyway, if Icke's telling the truth about the government, the Illuminati, etc how come he hasn't been killed yet? Capitalist governments are good at doing that to people they don't like who reveal inconvenient truths.

You've got life all sewn up, so I guess that would be a valid question for you.