Re-opening Schools?
- Thread starter ska invita
- Start date
Always seemed logical to me but there have been plenty of voices suggesting otherwise and not all were politicians, some were seemingly far more qualified to make such observations
I agree but it's not great for the teachers though.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
It's not
But if you shut all non-essential workplaces then you should also significantly reduce the childcare burden on schools enabling far more parents to keep kids at home when there's any doubt.
I'm a teacher, I want to stay open. I don't think teachers with health conditions that put them at risk should have to go in. We should have a proper testing system that allows multiple staff and students to get tested whenever needed. We're fucked.
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
And anyone working in student-adjacent industries - taxi drivers, takeaway workers, bar/club staff, cleaners, etc.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
And those teachers over 50, if not all teachers with serious underlying conditions, should be excused. This is my life being played with.
I think if you have a concern about your ability to cope with covid you should be entitled to say you're not coming in.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
So do I. And yet, despite the management being fully aware of my situation, this option has not even been raised as a possibility.
I would consider getting signed off with stress. I know it shouldn't be the way you have to do it but none of this business is being handled in the best way. Government are not protecting people so management are unlikely to differ in their approach.
What have OH said?
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Haven't spoken to them. Yes, maybe I should.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
I have no idea why the ten sessions a week I deliver on personal development have to be in a classroom with ten different bubbles. Especially as they're all computing students.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
A school could be a very different, and better, place during this Pandemic. But that would've required rethinking the priorities and the purposes of a "good education". Those with the power to take such decisions are both unwilling and unable to contemplate this...as seen during the A-level farce.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Also no worker, in any job, should feel under pressure to enter a workplace they feel unsafe in.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Fucking BOOM! by the way.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thanks. What I was going on about goes beyond this government or governments in general. There is bias that extends well into the medical and research communities against massively inconvenient truths. And there have always been massive gaps in disease surveillance, caused in part by the tendency to diminish the role of things that are only experienced as mild illnesses by the majority, certain age-groups etc. There are so many resulting contradictions, many of which children would have little trouble in figuring out if the issues were framed and explained properly.
We wont necessarily see nice, tidy conclusions coming from research into school outbreaks and spread during this pandemic. Because its hard to look at factors in isolation, and some of the bias will remain. Plus the roles of schools in epidemic spread extends well beyond the direct spread involving children and teachers, since when schools are closed the behaviour of adults is also changed (eg due to childcare issues).
Poeple that should know better cannot help themselves from equating mild and short Covid-19 illnesses in children with lower risk of transmission. Part of this is down to the same flawed logic we saw involved with all the denial about the role of asymptomatic cases. Naive ideas about transmission vectors that require a person to have coughy, sneezy etc symptoms to spread the virus in the most obvious ways that are in reality only a fraction of the full picture. And things that might actually be true and help to reduce the chances of a child spreading it to someone else, such as the possibility that they are infectious for less days than adults, are seized upon far too strongly. Its fine to point these things out but not in isolation, because for example a child may be infectious for less time but their level of viral shedding might be higher during the period where they are infectious. Have to consider both duration and intensity when trying to get the true picture.
Teachers are also used to inadequate measures being imposed from above, and have direct lived experience of how their profession exposes them to lots and lots of seasonal viruses during normal times. We used to joke with my mum about how she didnt get ill very often because her immune system had seen it all before via the reception age kids she taught for many years.
We wont necessarily see nice, tidy conclusions coming from research into school outbreaks and spread during this pandemic. Because its hard to look at factors in isolation, and some of the bias will remain. Plus the roles of schools in epidemic spread extends well beyond the direct spread involving children and teachers, since when schools are closed the behaviour of adults is also changed (eg due to childcare issues).
Poeple that should know better cannot help themselves from equating mild and short Covid-19 illnesses in children with lower risk of transmission. Part of this is down to the same flawed logic we saw involved with all the denial about the role of asymptomatic cases. Naive ideas about transmission vectors that require a person to have coughy, sneezy etc symptoms to spread the virus in the most obvious ways that are in reality only a fraction of the full picture. And things that might actually be true and help to reduce the chances of a child spreading it to someone else, such as the possibility that they are infectious for less days than adults, are seized upon far too strongly. Its fine to point these things out but not in isolation, because for example a child may be infectious for less time but their level of viral shedding might be higher during the period where they are infectious. Have to consider both duration and intensity when trying to get the true picture.
Teachers are also used to inadequate measures being imposed from above, and have direct lived experience of how their profession exposes them to lots and lots of seasonal viruses during normal times. We used to joke with my mum about how she didnt get ill very often because her immune system had seen it all before via the reception age kids she taught for many years.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Oh this will end well 
elbows
Well-Known Member
By the way those were just examples in my last post of looking at one possible fact optimistically and then ignoring another dimension entirely. Because like so many other areas of respiratory viral research, I dont think human understanding to date is usually clear and certain enough that I can go throwing such things around as if they are absolute proven facts. And its not hard to find studies whose findings contradict each other. Under such conditions I make no secret of the fact that I am biased towards anything that is a good fit for precautionary principals.
Some countries took a precautionary approach by favouring the introduction of various distance-learning initiatives, part time returns to classroom etc. These are imperfect from an educational perspective but still better than a total shambles where the goal to keep schools open runs the risk of falling off the rails completely. But such things require actual effort and are not generally compatible with the non-educational childcare/go back to work agenda, and so they have not happened in this country much.
Some countries took a precautionary approach by favouring the introduction of various distance-learning initiatives, part time returns to classroom etc. These are imperfect from an educational perspective but still better than a total shambles where the goal to keep schools open runs the risk of falling off the rails completely. But such things require actual effort and are not generally compatible with the non-educational childcare/go back to work agenda, and so they have not happened in this country much.
wtfftw
melting like a toastie
Nice of someone to try and keep count.
Ampleforth College ordered to stop admitting new pupils
A prestigious private school known as the "Catholic Eton" has been ordered by the government to stop admitting new pupils over safeguarding failures. Education secretary Gavin Williamson has today ordered Ampleforth College, in North Yorkshire, to "cease to admit any new students". The...
schoolsweek.co.uk
Over here (Ireland) the government has released their strategy for the next 6 to 8 months.
There are 5 levels of response.
We are apparently at level 2 currently although Dublin is somewhere between 2 and 3.
Stage 5 is full on lockdown.
However..... at no stage at any level are schools or colleges to close
Even when shops, restaurants, hotels, funerals...only 10 mourners..no gyms..no sports..no indoor or outdoor anything...6 guests at weddings..no pools..no sports indoors or outdoors..religious services online..essential retail only..no clubs, pubs, hotels, hairdressers, take aways or delivery allowed..stay at home...can only go 5km from home..
But..
All creches, schools, colleges and universities are to open.
Wtf???
www.gov.ie
There are 5 levels of response.
We are apparently at level 2 currently although Dublin is somewhere between 2 and 3.
Stage 5 is full on lockdown.
However..... at no stage at any level are schools or colleges to close
Even when shops, restaurants, hotels, funerals...only 10 mourners..no gyms..no sports..no indoor or outdoor anything...6 guests at weddings..no pools..no sports indoors or outdoors..religious services online..essential retail only..no clubs, pubs, hotels, hairdressers, take aways or delivery allowed..stay at home...can only go 5km from home..
But..
All creches, schools, colleges and universities are to open.
Wtf???
COVID-19 (Coronavirus)
The latest information on how Ireland is responding to COVID-19 (Coronavirus)
www.gov.ie
baldrick
hmmmmm
There is a DfE webform for schools to report on absence daily. I know some schools are not completing it, as it isn't statutory.Nice of someone to try and keep count.
Ampleforth College ordered to stop admitting new pupils
A prestigious private school known as the "Catholic Eton" has been ordered by the government to stop admitting new pupils over safeguarding failures. Education secretary Gavin Williamson has today ordered Ampleforth College, in North Yorkshire, to "cease to admit any new students". The...
This form and variations thereof have been in action for six months, and the DfE still haven't managed to organise an API from school MIS suppliers. This would both increase the accuracy of data and reduce a small bit of covid-related admin for schools - win win right, so obviously it hasn't happened.
What a fucking mess this Disgraced Government is
Out of interest how many schools are there? Be interested to know what % have infections now?
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
Around 30,000, around 2.5%What a fucking mess this Disgraced Government is
Out of interest how many schools are there? Be interested to know what % have infections now?
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
I wonder what percentage of your posts are as overscrupulous and arguably nugatory as this one?
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
In b4 "2.8"
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