RCP/Spiked/IoI

[hitmouse]

Yeah, I also think that (never having experienced the RCP back when they were a thing, just thinking about left groups in general), you can have serious and principled differences with people and still work with them on some stuff, and even probably do a limited amount of joint work about some of the things you disagree on, depending on the differences. If say you can't work with anyone else around Ireland because of your position on Ireland, then that's probably about Ireland, but if you can't work with anyone else around Ireland, or racism, or the unions, or the Falklands, or XYZ, then that's probably about you.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It wasn't just those things though, was it. There were several other key self-imposed distinctions between RCG/RCP and 'the left'. Even that article mentions (as well as Ireland and Racism)

• attitudes to unions ("The RCG now criticized the IS for its “economism” and “localised trade union militancy,” accusing it of divorcing defensive trade union politics from a Marxist program of revolution. The RCG sought instead to build a cadre group to draw workers to a revolutionary vanguard party that challenged the chauvinism and nationalism of the British working class.")
• the Falklands ("There were significant disagreements with several groups over the Falklands War, for example: the RCP argued that the islands belonged to Argentina and supported the actions of the Argentinian government."),
• the miners' strike ("...the RCP called for a national ballot regarding strike action when other left groups and the leadership of the miners’ union insisted that this was unnecessary.")
• the 'working class struggle' in general ("...in contrast with others on the Trotskyist left, Richards claimed that there was no political vehicle left for the working class as an alternative to these forces. This implied that the idea of a revolutionary communist vanguard, which the RCP had promoted itself as during the 1980s, was no longer viable.")

I'm not sure what the practical distinction is between 'sectarian' and 'political' differences, but I'm sure that's related to my not being a member of anything any more.

There are a myriad of problems with the RCP/Spiked grouping - your third bullet being a good example - but I think the charge that they failed to collapse into left popular frontism isn't one of them. In each of the examples you provide there were genuine differences, perspectives and methods. It would be odd for them to be set aside merely to trail along with other failed leftie groups.

Also, some of their ideas were just shit - see the miners - precluding any joint work.

My point here isn't to defend the weirdos in the RCP by the way, it's to point out that that challengng or standing apart from the modus operandi or performative poltics of various organisations and campaigns on the left isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[The39thStep]

I don't think that's the case. The two issues, idenfiied in the article, where the 80's/90's RCP diverged from most (but not all) left groups was around anti-racism and Ireland. In both cases there were legitimate and signficant differences between the RCP and other left groups. While I was never a fan of the Lloyd Cole hair, roll neck sweater RCP types in Birmingham (who were mainly students) at the time, on both issues they had a much better set of politics than the left groups and co-operation was never on the cards due to political differences rather than sectarian ones. That said,, the RCP - even then - was quite odd and seemed cult like.

One of the traits of the far left has often been the need for groups to differentiate themselves not just from the reformist left which is completely understandable and indeed imo necessary but from other left groups. The International Socialists/SWP had their fair share of splits as did the 4th International types , some of these then fused with others grouplets, only then to fragment further. The RCP, apart from the completely forgettable Red Front ( see above) never engaged in any broad front or unity initiative and the obsession to stand out and differentiate meant that their position on anti racism evolved into one where the primacy of free speech overrode any other concerns. Hence after the early ELWAR stuff and the occasional turning up in a van then fucking off at the first sight of the fash they differentiated themselves in anti racism by not appealing to anyone actually involved in anti racism . Equally, their policy on Ireland, differentiated itself to the degree that it appealed to very very few if any of those that they said they supported ie those on hunger strike, in prison, carrying out the armed struggle or involved in industrial or community action in Ireland but to those that weren't. I remember hearing Gerry Adams speak in which he joked about sections of the British left being more PIRA than PIRA and then spoke about the tragedy of the lives lost at Warrington. Clare Fox to this day doesn't think that remorse and Warrington fit. I seem to recall that they were actually against the Good Friday Agreement, a sell out. When it came to the Miner's strike of course their insistence of 'differentiation' on the principle of calling for a ballot clearly put them into the somewhat unique position of being revolutionary scabs.

I am sure that there were 'legitimate and significant differences' between the RCP and other left groups however these differences were as much, if not more, about a need to be seen to be different than about supporting of influencing the struggles which acted as a convenient backdrop to their revolutionary theatre. Once they came to the conclusion that the working class was no longer the agent of change but what was needed was a refreshed and revitalised bourgeoisie it all went out of the window. The 'back to the suburbs ' era was about taking a contrarian view on HIV, , fighting compulsory measels vaccines for children, advocating no speed limits for cars and advocating concreting over the Amazon basin on the grounds of why should the Global south not have the luxuries of West. ( might be over egging the pudding there tbh but it was in that direction.

I don't think they had 'better ' politics, they might have had better marketing , and better gloss but their need to differentiate meant that their politics were abstract and propagandist, without substance, as they were always outsiders looking in on working class activity until they wrote off the working class itself. and fully consolidated as a vanity project.

 

[mojo pixy]

There are a myriad of problems with the RCP/Spiked grouping - your third bullet being a good example - but I think the charge that they failed to collapse into left popular frontism isn't one of them. In each of the examples you provide there were genuine differences, perspectives and methods. It would be odd for them to be set aside merely to trail along with other failed leftie groups.

Also, some of their ideas were just shit - see the miners - precluding any joint work.

My point here isn't to defend the weirdos in the RCP by the way, it's to point out that that challengng or standing apart from the modus operandi or performative poltics of various organisations and campaigns on the left isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Just to be clear, they were Jacobin's examples from the article - and I think the problem is/was not variations in doctrine or practice, but actually organising against those who could/should have been political allies. It speaks to how they ended up where they are today

 

[ska invita]

I'm surprised by this... This person is an editor at spiked supposedly.... Anyone know more about them?

 

[hitmouse]

I'm surprised by this... This person is an editor at spiked supposedly.... Anyone no more about them?

I was going to say I'd be quite surprised if she's a spiked editor, but apparently she is. I just vaguely know of her as one of those leftish social media personalities who always seems to be locked in endless battles with other people of the same ilk.

 

[Dom Traynor]

Apparently I'm subscribed to her YouTube channel but I can't say I've heard of her before...

 

[hitmouse]

Apparently I'm subscribed to her YouTube channel but I can't say I've heard of her before...

I think that's enough to qualify you as our resident Angie Speaks expert.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I think that's enough to qualify you as our resident Angie Speaks expert.

Hang on, is her surname Speaks? I thought it was just the name of a bit, like Dear Deirdre or something

 

[hitmouse]

Hang on, is her surname Speaks? I thought it was just the name of a bit, like Dear Deirdre or something

I think it is (the latter, not the former), but I cba to look up what her actual surname is, so Speaks will do for now.

On reflection, this question shows exactly why we need a resident Angie (???) expert, so I'm glad that Dom Traynor has volunteered for the job.

 

[Dom Traynor]

I think it is (the latter, not the former), but I cba to look up what her actual surname is, so Speaks will do for now.

On reflection, this question shows exactly why we need a resident Angie (???) expert, so I'm glad that Dom Traynor has volunteered for the job.

Ok so a bit of Googling suggests Angie Speaks is the only name she has used professionally since at least 2018, that she used to be involved with anarcho-pagan platform Beautiful Resistance, and that around 2020 she was (possibly unfairly frankly) accused of being a TERF during a debate on whether Breadtube (what's that?) was White because it was racist. Her most recent column in Spiked talks about the treatment of Richard Ayoade after he praised Graham Linehans new book. And she's unsurprisingly quite anti cancel culture.

 

[hitmouse]

I think it's like a breadbin, but for keeping baguettes in?

 

[ska invita]

Ok so a bit of Googling suggests Angie Speaks is the only name she has used professionally since at least 2018, that she used to be involved with anarcho-pagan platform Beautiful Resistance, and that around 2020 she was (possibly unfairly frankly) accused of being a TERF during a debate on whether Breadtube (what's that?) was White because it was racist. Her most recent column in Spiked talks about the treatment of Richard Ayoade after he praised Graham Linehans new book. And she's unsurprisingly quite anti cancel culture.

includes the line "As if the cancellation of Graham Linehan were itself not cruel and irrational enough..."

The monstering of Richard Ayoade shows no one is safe from the culture war

He has been branded a ‘transphobe’ purely for praising Graham Linehan’s new book.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[Serge Forward]

Breadtube used to be an anarchist video channel. The "bread" was from Kropotkin's Conquest of Bread. I've never really watched it so can't say much but I believe it's since become a more general leftish channel.

Eta: "anarcho-pagan".... sounds like another fucking albatross round the neck.

 

[Dom Traynor]

I think it's like a breadbin, but for keeping baguettes in?

I don't think I buy baguettes often enough to have one of those. Sadly because I like the idea of them.

 

[The39thStep]

Lloyd Cole did a record Jennifer She Said . Perhaps they are related ?

Edited to avoid further ridicule

 

[Rob Ray]

It's more a vague collection of channels from various left youtubers that got going as an attempt to counter the alt-right. It's got a fairly popular reddit page where creators post their latest.

 

[hitmouse]

Lloyd Come

From the Collotions?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

All RCP members had to have the same hair and roll neck sweaters as Lloyd Come in the 1990’s.

 

[ska invita]

who the fuck is this and what did they do to get on tv?



another Graham Lineham is innocent type